Fikret Sadykhov: "Azerbaijan has never had any territorial claims to Armenia"

Interviewed by Andrei Petrov, exclusively to VK

Vestnik Kavkaza asked prominent political scientists of Azerbaijan and Armenia, Professor in the Western University Fikret Sadykhov and director of the Caucasus Institute Alexander Iskandaryan, to talk about the positions of the sides, the readiness of Azerbaijan and Armenia for dialogue, the most likely scenarios for the development of the situation and the role of international mediators. Today we publish the interview with Fikret Sadykhov.


- Whose problem today is the Nagorno -Karabakh conflict? Is it a problem for Armenia and Azerbaijan only or for the region and the world as a whole?


- Definitely, for each of the parties involved, this problem is a priority. But in the case of Azerbaijan, the situation is different in that in addition to Nagorno- Karabakh, which has declared its independence, the Armenian troops still occupy seven Azerbaijani regions around Nagorno -Karabakh. This is a significant difference between the approaches of the Armenian and Azerbaijani sides. This is precisely the main nuance. We see the occupied territories and the separatist regime which declared independence in the territory which is part of Azerbaijan. However, this area is considered to be part of Azerbaijan by the whole world.


- Is the participation of international mediators necessary? Or are they just delaying the solution of the conflict?

- The problem is very painful. It affects every citizen of our country, and this is a very serious matter. And here it is important to soberly assess the current situation. I am convinced that in the early 1990s, when the OSCE Minsk Group was formed by the three leading countries, it faced several challenges. The first one was to suspend hostilities, and the second - to take control of the situation. It took more than 20 years, and time has shown that the leading states that in other situations, in other areas may act significantly quicker are guided by the letter of the law, international law, adhere to the norms of a fair and just solution of various territorial and regional issues, in this situation demonstrate a complete helplessness. Nevertheless, these major states cannot be accused of helplessness, because they solve the world's problems and are at the forefront of world development in many areas.

Maintaining the status quo associated with Nagorno- Karabakh is totally unacceptable. Moreover, it is unclear, because Azerbaijan knows and understands that , if necessary, in case of interest , these countries could act in accordance with the resolutions adopted at the highest level in international organizations that require the Armenian side to leave the Azerbaijani territory.

- Are Armenia and Azerbaijan ready today for a diplomatic solution to the conflict?


- I cannot speak about Armenia, but I can say something about my country. Azerbaijan has repeatedly demonstrated a willingness to cooperate constructively. Azerbaijan has adopted the principles of agreements and negotiations in Prague and Madrid.

There are also the updated "Madrid principles". Their essence is that the issue is solved in two stages. The first stage is exempting the occupied Azerbaijani territories. At the second stage, in the negotiation process, refugees are returning to their homes, and the negotiation process on Nagorno-Karabakh continues on the basis of norms and principles of international law. We offered various models of settlement - the Aland Islands in Finland, the model of South Tyrol, with greater powers of those ethnic groups that reside in the territory. But Azerbaijan is constantly faced with the non-constructive approach and the denial of all constructive suggestions and ideas. Armenia is trying to maintain the status quo in the settlement of the Karabakh for many years, which Azerbaijan can not accept and will never agree with it.

- Who should take the first step now to get out of the impasse?

 - Armenia, at least as a gesture of good will, must begin the process of withdrawal of its troops from the occupied Azerbaijani territories around Nagorno- Karabakh. This process should begin. Azerbaijan can then respond with something. As long as Azerbaijani territory, recognized by the world community, is occupied, expecting from Azerbaijan any compromise steps is unrealistic. I think that this should begin the process of reconciliation, because Azerbaijan for more than 20 years continues to be in the format of negotiations not withdrawing from it.

- Can a time come when a diplomatic solution would be impossible?

- We cannot rule out this possibility. If one thinks in Armenia or in other countries that Azerbaijan will once put up with it all, then this is not the case. This question stirs all the political forces of Azerbaijan and the public, all sectors of our country, both the ruling elite and ordinary citizens. Without solving this problem, Azerbaijan does not see its future. We have repeatedly stated that the diplomatic path, peace talks potentially not yet been exhausted. We still look forward to the sobriety of the approach of the Armenian side, the fair assessment and approaches of the leading states and the decisive action of international organizations. Hope remains, but of course, over time, the potential of this approach decreases.

- Is it possible that Azerbaijan will leave Karabakh to Armenia ? For example, in 1990s, the "Meghri castling" was discussed - Armenia gives Meghrito to Azerbaijan in exchange for the territory of Nagorno -Karabakh...

- It is absolutely unreal. The American political scientist Paul Goble and other experts put forward similar ideas. This is just stupid . This is inconsistent with the geopolitical interests of Azerbaijan. Meghri is a territory in Armenia. Nagorno- Karabakh is a separate region of Azerbaijan, where ethnic Azeris have always lived since prehistoric times. There the Karabakh khanate existed which could not be in the Armenian territory.

Nevertheless, we consider the Armenian population of Karabakh to be our own population. We have never engaged in ethnic cleansing of Armenians in Nagorno -Karabakh. We have always treated them kindly.

The provocation that occurred in the late 1980s carried out with the participation of destructive political forces of the Central Committee of the CPSU led to this result. So I think that exchange of territories is not equivalent and is not of interest for Azerbaijan. In Azerbaijan, the idea of such an exchange was never seriously considered.

- Does the demographic situation in both countries exacerbate the conflict? There is mass migration from Armenia, and Azerbaijan, on the contrary, increases.

- You know this better in Moscow. In Armenia, there is a reduction of the population, in this sense, the country is reduced as shagreen. Tens of thousands of people a year are leaving Armenia. It is denied any involvement in the regional projects, the completion of which could provide a very serious possibility of economic recovery and improve social standards. Armenia could be attracted to the various oil and gas projects in the region. We have repeatedly offered similar options. The demographic situation is not developing in favor of Armenia.

In contrast, the population of Azerbaijan is growing. There are even interesting statistics that some migrants from Russia and other countries are returning to Azerbaijan, because it opens up new jobs. This situation is fundamentally different from the one that was in the early 1990s. This is the reality that Armenia should consider.

- Is there a dialogue between Armenia and Azerbaijan at the expert level, the level of non-governmental organizations?

- The dialogue should be conducted not for the sake of dialogue, but for the sake of real positive steps. Throughout these 20 years, often at different sites journalists, political scientists and cultural figures held meetings. There was even a trip to Nagorno- Karabakh, Yerevan and Baku of a joint delegation of Armenia and Azerbaijan headed by ambassadors of Azerbaijan and Armenia in Moscow. That took place. Now, too, there are meetings, but unfortunately they do not bring any results .

Such meetings should sober the government that behaves extremely unconstructively in Yerevan. Just meeting and talking can be infinite. Talking about the continuation of this dialogue just does not make any sense.

Given the current situation, Azerbaijan increases its military capabilities, military budget. We are forced to take such steps, because if the country is invaded by another state, what is there left for Azerbaijan to do ? But Azerbaijan has never had any territorial claims to Armenia. Because sometimes when it comes to the use of military forces by Azerbaijan , for some reason, people think that someone is going to organize an attack on Yerevan. We do not need someone else's territory; it is about the liberation of our own areas. As the practice of recent years shows, we go to this purposefully. We support the peaceful resolution of this issue, but this process cannot be eternal.