Heiko Langner: "The population of Donbas regards NATO as at open war with it"

Interview by Orkhan Sattarov, head of the European Bureau of Vestnik Kavkaza

The parliament of Ukraine has recently adopted a law granting Donbas special status after the local elections. The unrecognized republics and the Russian Foreign Ministry consider the document to be an attempt to revamp all the previous agreements. Heiko Langner, a politologist in Berlin, has commented on the document, the European policy of Petro Poroshenko and the anti-Russian sanctions.

- Mr. Langner, how would you evaluate the bill granting the Donbas Region special status?

- Perhaps the decisive thing is not the bill, but how it is going to be implemented. But the primary problem is different: the separatists, with Russian support, have in fact managed to win independence from Kiev. Thus, the question arises: what would the benefit be of integrating back into Ukraine voluntarily?

Although I support the territorial integrity of Ukraine in fundamental considerations, on the other hand, I must admit that the government in Kiev has made many mistakes that have led to their absolute estrangement from the population of eastern Ukraine. Kiev has fully isolated the people living in the zone of the conflict from the rest of the world. There is no electricity, energy, and sometimes no water. Financial contacts have been cut, the population cannot withdraw money from automatic teller machines, pensions are not paid. The lack of medical aid and medicaments can be seen. All this leads to the distrust of the population in rebel regions of Donbas of the intentions of the Ukrainian government, which to a large extent supports the authorities of the "People's Republics".

Kiev needs to be deeply engaged in the issues and make concessions to its citizens in order to regain trust. At this moment, it is hard to evaluate whether Kiev would succeed, but, in any case, the process will need a long time. We must not forget that the civilian population in the rebel regions regards the anti-terrorist operation (ATO) as an open war against itself, and suffers tough consequences. The fact that the population can hardly imagine co-existance in a common state is unsurprising. It is hard to imagine anything more than free confederative relations even with a positive development of the situation.

- How would you comment on the recent visit of Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko to Berlin?

- The Ukrainian president needs urgent allies who would first of all back it economically and financially. Germany in this case is the key state within the European Union. Berlin is no doubt supporting the position of Kiev in the Ukrainian conflict, keeping working ties with Moscow, one of the reasons of which is that Germany is not part of the anti-Russian hardliners in the EU and NATO. Germany could conduce allocation of greater packages of financial aid from the IMF or the EU, and show greater support for the Ukrainian economy within the framework of bilateral relations. I think that Kiev wants Germany to be its tutor in realizing Ukrainian interests in the EU and the NATO.

- During Poroshenko's visit to Berlin, Chancellor Angela Merkel announced the possible implementation of new sanctions against Russia by the EU. Do you consider such developments likely, and what sanctions could they be?

- We can keep to different opinions about the gist and the efficiency of the sanctions. I am straightforwardly critical of them and consider them to be an arrogant and presumptuous policy of the West. As a pedagogic measure, the sanctions are absolutely unacceptable, because the West, due to its double standards, has lost all credit. Other than that, the sanctions encourage the Russian population to support the course of its government even more. According to actual social polls, about 85% of the population is satisfied with the policy of President Putin, so he can take a break.

However, the gravest exacerbation of sanctions is possible if the West wants it. They can be expanded, for example, to other specific economic sectors. This may happen if Minsk-2 fails and combat resumes. Instead of threatening further sanctions, it would be more fruitful to concentrate efforts on implementing the Minsk Agreements as a prologue to a long-term and sustainable peace process.