Vahan Martirosyan: "The sooner Armenia returns Karabakh, the less injustice and poverty there will be in Armenia"

The opposition figure Vahan Martirosyan, who led the non-governmental opposition organization "intra-liberation movement", escaped with his family in September 2015 from Armenia to Azerbaijan. He was subsequently transferred to a third country. Martirosyan, his wife and a child are in safety in there new place of residence, but the irrepressible Armenian propaganda has already performed a funeral and buried them, as if they had been tortured to death by the Azerbaijani Committee for State Security. According to Armenian media, they didn't even spare the young child, and Azerbaijani publications use a photo of a person who ''looks like Martirosyan." Whatever spiteful Armenian critics invented, Vahan Martirosyan is beyond Azerbaijan's borders, but he agreed to an interview on Skype for haqqin.az, primarily in order to expose another pro-Sargsyan lampoon.

- Vahan, glad to see you alive and healthy!

- Thank you! Has anything happened to me in Azerbaijan? If you mean the ultra-violent fantasies of the pro-Sargsyan mass media, then you'd better not read them at all in order not to put such unnecessary things in normal people's heads. They have buried me alive seven times!

- Thank God that you are in good health and with a sober mind. So let me begin our conversation with a direct question. Have you been put under moral or physical pressure in Azerbaijan, as reported by Armenian mass media?

- Firstly, I should say that now I am not so far away from Armenia. As for your question, I should note that when I was in Azerbaijan I was free both in my actions and speeches.

All the interviews and comments ascribed to me in the Azerbaijani media were without any coercion. How can we speak about any pressure on me if I voluntarily stayed in Azerbaijan after crossing the Georgian-Azerbaijani border when I was seeking asylum and safety? I was not kidnapped. Nobody forced me to do anything here. I was pleasantly surprised when I was in Baku.

- I do not want to scare you, but you know that the Armenian Diaspora has serious ties among Armenian terrorist organizations. You were safe in Azerbaijan, but now do you have no fears for yourself and your family?

- If I was afraid of revenge then I wouldn't have gone to Azerbaijan. I knew that some of my fellow citizens in Armenia and the Diaspora are brainwashed by pro-Sargsyan media, so they will believe that I am a spy and an enemy of the Armenian people. But I was surprised that there are sober-minded people in the Armenian Diaspora who supported me. For example, a film about me was made in the US. People understand that the traitor of the Armenian people is Sargsyan's regime – it's not me that has ruined both Armenia and its people.

- During your stay in Azerbaijan did you have the opportunity to have close personal conversations with ordinary Azerbaijanis?

- Certainly, I wasn't in prison. I was walking through the city, went shopping in the shops and markets. Then I read the Armenian media that invented various stories about me. Sometimes I even thought that the information was written not by journalists, but by science-fiction writers.

- What was the reaction of ordinary people when they learned that you were a citizen of Armenia?

- If you mean any negativity or aggression, I didn't notice any such things. Azerbaijanis had a very positive attitude to me. And I met with a lot of your fellow citizens. The only expression of aggression against me was when they beat me at backgammon.

I even visited the Armenian Church, which is located on Fountain Square. I was impressed by the fact it is intact, and that the Armenian Church is under the protection of the state. Unfortunately, nobody knows about it in Armenia.

- And this situation is against the background of destroyed mosques in Armenia and Karabakh...

- You have a procedure and an understanding that it is forbidden to destroy cultural monuments and churches. You are spared such mental illness, in contrast to General Manvel Grigoryan, who could give an order to shoot at mosques.

- What was your reaction to the escalation of the conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh in early April?

- This is terrible. A lot of people died. Who needed this? Let the mothers of the killed young Armenian soldiers say. Three months ago I openly said there is a secret order of the Ministry of Defense of Armenia that children from low-income families should be at the forefront in Karabakh.

The April escalation on the frontline reflected the correctness of my words – the majority of victims were children from poor families. In my opinion, the words of Azerbaijan's Minister of Foreign Affairs, Elmar Mammadyarov, are the best answer to the question of who initiated the escalation of tensions on the front line in early April. Answering a reporter's question about how and when he learned about the fighting in Karabakh, Mammadyarov answered honestly that he was with the President of Azerbaijan at the Nuclear Security Summit in the US when he learned that the situation in Karabakh had dramatically escalated.

- How do you assess the potential of the Armenian army?

- And how should we assess this? Even the Armenian media wrote that the Armenian army uses weapons and equipment produced in the 80's. It became clear during the recent escalation of the conflict that the Armenian army is in deep decline. But Seyran Ohanyan is irrelevant to this.

Yuri Khachaturov, the Chief of the Military Staff, is responsible for this. He ruined the Armenian army by cultivating total corruption. He ''added'' 5000 contract servicemen to the army who exist only on paper. However, funds are allocated from the state budget for the maintenance of the "5000 contract servicemen" that remain on Khachaturov's accounts.

Gregory, Khachaturov's son, is an officer in the Armed Forces of Armenia, who forces his subordinate soldiers to take large loans from banks. The money remains in his pockets. Seyran Ohanyan cannot do anything with this outrageous breach of all limits.

- Does Armenian society realize that the captured Azerbaijani territories haven't brought happiness to ordinary Armenians?

- I have noted many times that ordinary citizens of Armenia don't want to send their children to Karabakh. But it is necessary to pay a few thousand dollars in order not to send a child there. Poor people don't have such sums of money, which is why they have two choices: either to accept the fact that their own child will participate in the war in Karabakh, or send him to relatives in Russia.

Armenians in Armenia are tired of the Karabakh conflict. Believe me, if we hold a fair referendum with only one question: "Do you need Karabakh?" 90% of the population will give a negative answer. Ask people whether Karabakh has brought happiness to a single Armenian family?

- It brought it only to Kocharyan, Sargsyan and their Karabakh clan...

- I don't think that they are Armenians. By the way, they are citizens of Azerbaijan. It is necessary to return them to Azerbaijan, as there are a lot of questions and complaints regarding them.

Speaking of happiness, I meant those who profit from this conflict and ordinary Armenians. The disabled from the Karabakh war. The authorities left them to the mercy of fate. They were thrown into prison and deprived of their property. Did they fight for this?

Look at the empty territory of Karabakh. Why don't Armenians hasten to settle there? It means that there is no such necessity. Then who needs this war?

- The Karabakh clan, Kocharyan, Sargsyan and other figures like them. The latter rejected the negotiating process...

- And who is to announce the resusal? Sargsyan's actions are illogical and he is not a free person in his actions. He will do what is instructed by curators from a nuclear power.

- So there's no sense in asking for Levon Ter-Petrosyan's advice, as he also receives instructions from the curators?

- I do not think so. In my opinion, Sargsyan's meeting with the first president is another adventure with the participation of Mr. Sargsyan. The very fact of the meeting became known to the media, which indicates that the authorities tried to divert the public's attention from problems on the front. This meeting became the main topic for the media.

Certainly, Levon Ter-Petrosyan is the Patriarch of Armenian policy. But all his political activity faded after March 2008. He became part of the puppet opposition. All today's Armenian opposition figures are Sargsyan's people. Since 2008 Levon Ter-Petrosyan is playing according to Sargsyan's rules. The billionaire Gagik Tsarukyan also perfectly performs the role of an opposition figure, although in reality he is Sargsyan's purse.

- It is said that Kocharyan and Sargsyan cannot get along with each other. Is this true?

- It is absolutely untrue. Kocharyan and Sargsyan have no disagreements, including the constitutional reforms, despite the fact that the second president was against them. The richest people in Armenia are the families of Robert Kocharyan and Serzh Sargsyan. Kocharyan's personal fortune is estimated at $6 billion, and the current president's fortune is about $5 billion.

- Is Kocharyan's return to the post of President of Armenia possible?

- And why does he need a powerless president of Armenia? In fact, after the constitutional reforms the next President of Armenia will be a decorative figure. Kocharyan has powerful tools of pressure on the current government. When he needs it he begins to use them, and Sargsyan cannot avoid it. So I don't think that Kocharyan will agree to be an "Armenian queen". Seyran Ohanyan plays this role much better.

- Do you think the coexistence of Azerbaijanis and Armenians is possible in the future? Or was Kocharyan right when he spoke about the incompatibility of the two nations?

- Kocharyan blurted out a folly. Reconciliation of the two peoples is possible and even necessary. And the sooner it happens, the better. Neighbors should not live in animosity. Especially if they have been set against each other by strangers.

According to Armen Dzhigarkhanyan, Armenians and Azerbaijanis were set against each other by strangers. Patriots of Armenia called him a traitor of the motherland. I agree with Armen Borisovich, our people were set against each other by strangers. Armenians need reconciliation more than Azerbaijanis. The sooner Armenia returns Karabakh and establishes good relations with Azerbaijanis, the less injustice and poverty there will be in Armenia.

- And a last question. Will you continue your human rights educational activities beyond Armenia?

- Certainly. But it might not be human rights activities in the truest sense. In the coming months I have a plan to establish a civilian movement among Armenians living abroad, not brainwashed by Sargsyan's propaganda. The goal of the movement is the liberation of Armenia from this anti-constitutional regime ''which is implementing a 'white genocide' of the Armenian people,'' as Charles Aznavour said.