Interview by Peter Lukinson, Israel, exclusively to VK
Political expert and journalist Avigdor Eskin is a famous figure in Israel. He is often found at the very center of Israeli political scandals, and his impact on Israeli political life is often viewed ambiguously: some deem him to be a hero, others call him ‘a right-wing extremist’. Nevertheless, almost all agree that Mr Eskin is a top Israeli expert on Russia and the CIS. In the past few years Eskin took up the issue of the Azerbaijani-Armenian conflict. It is interesting to mention that in the early stages of his research Avigdor openly sympathized with Armenia, but in 2010 he changed his position as, according to him, his Armenian colleagues failed to give straight answers to some delicate questions that surfaced during the research. This abrupt change caused a burst of indignation in the Armenian media: the expert was even accused of being bribed by the Azerbaijanis. Nevertheless, it is hard to find another competent expert in Israel that would monitor South Caucasian developments so closely. That is why VK decided to ask him to give us some comments on the state of relations between Armenia, Azerbaijan and Israel.
- Avigdor, how much do you think the Azeri and Armenian media and political milieus are interested in Israel?
- I think that the level of interest increased considerably in both states recently. But it was always there. In my opinion, Armenia has always tried to repeat the achievements of Israel but failed. After it declared its independence, the number of its residents decreased, not increased. The famous Armenian singer Aznavour even accused the Armenian authorities of committing genocide against their own people. In Azerbaijan interest towards Israel is defined not by politics, but by the warm relations with the local Jewish community, the majority of whom moved to Israel in 80s and 90s. However, the topic of Iran is also beginning to play an important role in Azerbaijani-Israeli rapprochement. Iran poses a strategic threat to Israel, and on the other hand Teheran is now one of the closest allies of Yerevan.
- How would you characterize the attitude of Azerbaijan and Armenia towards the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? How could this attitude affect the balance of power on a global scale?
- In all the issues connected to our region Azerbaijan took up a cautious politically correct position, it recognizes UN decisions. Armenia, on the other hand, is leaning towards the position of the Arab world. But Israel has fruitful relations with both countries.
- Do you think the Azerbaijani and Armenian media treat Israel-related issues objectively?
- The major part of these countries’ media take their information on this subject from foreign sources. In Azerbaijan’s case it's western and Turkish sources, in Armenia’s – Russian and Iranian. So you think that both can’t be called truly objective.
- And what is the general attitude of the Armenian media towards Israel and Jews? Some Israeli experts say that the Armenian press, especially on-line, has take up a slightly anti-Semitic position recently.
- I’ve been studying this issue for some time now. It would be too long if I started reciting my findings to you now, you can look them up on my web-page. Unfortunately, it is true that anti-Semitic propaganda has become a mainstream trend in Yerevan. If earlier only such terrorist extremists like Stepan Zatikyan could allow themselves to blame the Jews for all troubles, today almost all Armenian young people are infected with this idea. I’ll give you some examples to prove my claim. Back in 1998 a respected Armenian political expert Igor Muradyan published an article in the ‘Voice of Armenia’ that promoted Nazi ideology. According to him, the Armenian-Jewish face-off is a face-off between Semites and Aryans. He even named the Jews as the true culprits of the Karabakh conflict. This article was a display of ordinary Fascism. In 2002 a book entitled ‘National System’ was published by Romen Yepiskopyan. It was approved by the official syndicate of Armenian writers. In this ‘scholarly work’ the author not only blames Jews for all the troubles of the Armenian people, he also denies the Holocaust, calling it ‘a Jewish ruse aimed at disgracing the Aryans’. In addition, there is an active ‘Armenian Aryan Order’ in Armenia, headed by a neo-Nazi, Armen Avetisyan. He is such an extravagant figure that no one in Yerevan tried to argue with his accusations against the Jews. It sounds terrible, but such absurd tales about Jews, as us being responsible for the Armenian genocide in Turkey in 1915, are quite popular in Armenia. It is sad, but the current Armenian President himself is exposed as a disseminator of anti-Semitic literature. This information comes from US ambassador to Armenia by WikiLeaks, and no one ever refuted it. It is strange, but Israeli officials prefer to be silent about it.
- Do the Armenian monitor the debates around the recognition of the Armenian genocide in Israel?
- Israel has never denied the fact that a great tragedy took place in Turkey in 1915. The question is, are we ready to accept the Armenian version of those events without reserve? Of course not. If you read latest Armenian publications on the subject, you’ll see that they blame Jews and members of the Jewish Dönmeh community for starting the massacre. It would be absurd if we agreed to recognize this slander as an historical fact. There is an effective Armenian lobby in the Israeli parliament; it is headed by the chairman of the ruling coalition. Of course, they have a chance of achieving some success, using our currently tense relations with Turkey, but they can’t change the state’s political course. And if those who lobby the Armenian version of genocide in our Knesset actually knew the full extent of it, they would be greatly ashamed of themselves. We can’t meet the demands of the Armenian government and diaspora, as they involve slander against Jewish people. And we shouldn’t apologize for it. It is they who have to apologize.
- Do you think there’s any truth to the rumors of Israel recognizing Armenian genocide and stopping weapons shipments to Azerbaijan in exchange for Armenia’s support on the international scene?
- It makes no sense. We can’t recognize Armenian genocide for the above-mentioned reasons, while Azerbaijan is our principle ally in the Caucasus.
- And what is the level of influence of Armenian lobbies in the US and Europe?
- It has a certain influence in the US. And it is very ill-disposed towards Israel. All recent meetings of Armenian and Jewish diaspora leaders were held in a friendly atmosphere, but led to no actual results. The only exception is France, where the two communities managed to agree on many points. In general, the Armenian lobby is more effective than the Azerbaijani one. But I would like to wish both peoples wealth and prosperity. Azerbaijanis and Armenians used to get along well in the past. I hope it will be so once again soon.
