Dani Ayalon: “Development of Israeli-Georgian relations shouldn’t harm relations with Russia”

Interview by Petr Lukimson, Israel. Exclusively to VK.

The deputy foreign minister of Israel, Dani Ayalon, is one of the most interesting figures of Israeli politics and diplomacy. The experienced diplomat, the deputy of the party Our Home – Israel, Ayalon, has attracted the attention of mass media on many occasions. Recently Ayalon officially visited Georgia. VK interviewed him after his coming back to Israel.

-    Mr. Ayalon, why do Israeli top officials and politicians visit the Caucasus, including Georgia, frequently?

-    First of all, modern Georgia is very friendly to Israel. We have common democratic values, a common approach to settlement of important problems of the world politics. Moreover, one of the most ancient Jewish communities lives in Georgia – Jews have been living in Georgia at least for 2600 years. Cultural and economic ties with Georgia are developing intensively, especially in the sphere of tourism. But we believe that potential of relations with this country is much bigger. As you remember, some time ago two major Israeli businessmen were arrested in Georgia. Even though it was rather long ago, the situation damaged Israeli-Georgian relations seriously. My visit to Tbilisi was aimed at restoring the relations. Another aim was support of our ambassador in Georgia, Itskhak Gerber, who was tried to be killed by Iranian agents in Georgia. I know how important such visits for embassy employees are. Furthermore, I conducted many political meetings, including my Georgian colleague and the minister of information.

-    What was the main topic of discussions? Was it the Iranian threat?

-    We discussed a wide range of topics, including the situation in the Middle East in general and of course the Iranian problem. Georgia supports sanctions against Iran, and our positions in this sphere are similar.

-    Did the Georgian authorities address to Israel with special requests?

-    What do you mean?

-    I mean tense Russian-Georgian relations and hopes of Georgia connected with military support by Israel…

-    No, it is unacceptable. From the very beginning we made Georgia understand that we are interested in well relations with it, but our relations with Russia are important for us as well. Of course the problem of South Ossetia and Abkhazia was discussed too. Our position is clear – we stand for territorial integrity of Georgia and hope that settlement of this contradiction will be peaceful.

-    When does Israel expect Putin to visit? At first some information sources stated that Putin to fly to Israel few weeks after inauguration. Now the newspaper Ediot Ahronot says that the visit will take place in late June and will last for one day. Who is right?

-    I cannot say anything certain about it. The media has written a lot on this issue, but all articles were pure speculation. It is too early to talk about it. There are no certain date and program of the visit. Of course Russian president is welcomed. He received our invitation, and we hope he will come.

-    So there is no certain date for Putin’s visit to Israel…

-    At least I have no right to talk about it…

-    You are one of the most experienced Israeli diplomats. What do you think about Iran? Is there any chance to settle the situation by diplomatic measures?

-    Our position on Iran is also clear: we cannot allow Iran create the nuclear bomb. It would threaten Israel and other countries of the Middle East, and the whole world. Almost everyone understands it, including the Arab countries. The argument concerns ways of preventing Iran from creation of the nuclear bomb. Our demands are clear: we have to make Iran to stop enrichment of uranium; then we should gather uranium that was enriched earlier, destroy nuclear facilities and initiate a strict international inspection on fulfilling these requirements. We cannot compromise here. First of all, if we allow Iran to enrich uranium up to a certain level, it will enable them to cheat and go beyond the limits. You cannot be half pregnant, you know. So you enrich uranium or do not. Secondly, the Iranian nuclear program violates all international laws and duties taken by Iran and four resolutions of the Security Council on the nuclear program. The international society doesn’t negotiate with Iran, as you cannot negotiate with a criminal on whether he can commit crimes or not. The world has certain demands and insists on their fulfillment by Iran.

-    Do you think diplomatic measures can make Iran fulfill these demands?

-    You should understand – Iran is on the verge of chaos, collapse of economy, social and political structures. The Iranian authorities cannot stand but understand it. Weakening of Iran makes us hope for it will agree with demands of the international society. The crucial round of talks (talks, not negotiations) with Iran will happen in Moscow. Let’s wait for June. But if pressure on Iran in Moscow will have no results, we will consider it as green light. Any decision will be less harmful than the situation when Iran possesses nuclear armament.

-    Turkish media reports that Turkey’s prosecution took the case against the former head of Israeli army to court. The media states that the prosecution demands 18 000 years of imprisonment for Israeli generals. Will the foreign ministry of Israel react at these reports?

-    First of all, neither the foreign ministry of Israel nor our embassy in Turkey received any requirements from Turkish law-enforcement bodies. We cannot trust newspapers. That is why no official reaction appeared. At the same time, if it is true, it is more than serious. Turkey has no grounds and the legal base for conduction of such court. It concerns a political campaign aimed at damaging Israel’s image. Of course we will manage to provide our generals with security. But I’m sure Turkey won’t take such a step.

-    Is there any chance to normalize Israeli-Turkish relations in the near future?

-    The key to this problem is hold by Turkey. We did all our best. I think such a chance exists, as both sides are interested in normalization. Moreover, Turkey as a member of NATO is influenced by the organization which demands to normalize relations with Israel.

-    Don’t you feel guilty for worsening relations with Turkey? After you humiliated the ambassador of Turkey, Turkish-Israeli relations were damaged even more seriously…

-    It is not true! Our relations with Turkey began to worsen in 2008 when the Turkish prime-mister Erdogan humiliated in Davos our president Shimon Peres. It didn’t concern me. When we had to protect our children and conduct the operation Cast Lead in Gaza, Turkey took the anti-Israeli position. And it doesn’t concern me too.

-    So do you feel personal guilt for worsening relations with Turkey or not?

-    Worsening of relations with Turkey and Israel is only a part of worsening Turkey’s relations with the West in general. In 2003 Turkey rejected the Western coalition request to use its air space for launching strikes at Iraq. Turkey rejected sanctions against Iran for 18 months. The Turkish problem is much wider than you think.