Yuli Edelstein, "All tragedies are tragic in different ways"

Author: Interview by Petr Lyukimson, Israel, exclusively to VK

The recent visit of Israeli Minister for Information and Diaspora Yuli Edelstein to Georgia and Armenia caused controversial comments in the media and political circles in Israel and Azerbaijan. It went so far that in Azerbaijan the media spoke about the need of a special statement by the Israeli Foreign Ministry about the statements made by Edelstein while in Armenia. However, as reported in the Israeli Foreign Ministry to VK, they are not going to make any statement because the minister’s statements were quite correct, but each side heard what it wanted to hear. The reporter of VK asked the minister Yuli Edelstein what actually happened in Yerevan and what the goals pursued by his visit to the South Caucasus are.

- Mr. Edelstein, let's start with the purpose of your visit to Armenia and Georgia. What brought you to this area?



- I arrived in Yerevan on the invitation of the Minister of Culture of Armenia to sign an agreement on cultural cooperation between our two countries. At the same time there was the celebration of the 20th anniversary of the revival of the Jewish community, and therefore part of our delegation also included a number of Israeli artists. As you know, the agreement was signed, it was of great interest, and in early 2013 Armenia will hold first Days of Israeli Culture, and then there will be similar actions in Israel. In Georgia, I was officially on the invitation of the Minister of the Diaspora, to reflect on ways to intensify cooperation in this area, but at the same time there were meetings at the Ministry of Culture, we also reached an agreement on cultural exchange, and in November Days of Israeli culture will be held in Tbilisi, again with the hope that in a very short time we will organize the Days of Culture of Georgia in Israel. Also, of course, there were meetings with representatives of almost all the existing Jewish organizations in Georgia, and these meetings were also extremely interesting and productive.



- Now I'm beginning to understand why your visit to Azerbaijan was so carefully watched. Usually, when going to the South Caucasus, Israeli ministers try to visit all three countries of the region...

- Not necessarily. Moreover, as far as I know, cooperation with Azerbaijan in general is established, in Israel there is considerable interest in Azerbaijani culture and, of course, no one is going to overlook Azerbaijan. I think sooner or later I will visit this country. Azerbaijan also has Ministry of Diaspora, and, of course, we have a ground for cooperation in this area. By the way, we in Israel the word "diaspora" is clearly associated with the adjective "Jewish." However, in reality the Ministry or other agencies for Diaspora exist in many countries, because there is now Armenian, Azerbaijani, Polish, Korean, and many other diasporas all over the world. And the Ministries of Diaspora of these countries are strengthening ties with their own tribesmen. It is no secret that Israel has a great experience in this area, which we are willing to share, at the same time trying to learn everything positive that has been accumulated in this field in other countries. No doubt, these relations will also be developed with Azerbaijan. Of course, it can always be asked why someone has not arrived to this or that country, but remember that in Israel, a lot of work is always waiting for me, and I have to go home.


- In recent years, Israeli politicians often visit the South Caucasus. Why is this so? What is the place occupied by these countries in your system of government priorities?


- Our activity in the Caucasus has two aspects. Being not only Minister of Diaspora but also Minister of Information, I should note that the atmosphere and the attitude toward Israel in the three countries of the South Caucasus is strikingly different from that of many other parts of the planet. Paraphrasing an old Soviet anecdote, we do not have to convince anyone in Georgia, Azerbaijan and Armenia that "we do not lynch Negroes," that is, that Israel us a democratic state which carefully monitor the human rights situation, in which there are not any ethnic cleansings, apartheid and other things invented by our detractors. That is, during visits to the Caucasus we do not have to listen to all this nonsense, to explain how they are far from reality, and we can fully engage in concrete actions, that is, to establish bilateral cooperation in various fields. Incidentally, not so long ago was Minister of Agriculture Orit Nuked visited Georgia and Armenia and signed an agreement on cooperation with these countries in her area. A couple of weeks before Tourism Minister Yisrael Katz also visited Georgia and signed the agreement on "open skies", that is, on increasing cooperation in the field of civil aviation. That is, coming to the Caucasus, we do not just kick a dead horse; we do take action, quickly yielding fruit. But this is only one aspect.

The second point is our regional and geopolitical interests. The South Caucasus countries border Iran and this state is in some way trying to impose them its influence. Of course, we are not going to interfere in the internal affairs of these countries, but at the same time, if we do not keep our finger on the pulse and give up the cooperation and friendly relations with them, Iran will use it immediately.

- What happens to the Jewish communities in these countries? More than once I have heard that the Jewish communities in Georgia and Azerbaijan are dying, they have no future. Is this opinion true?

- You just reminded me of the great Jewish writer joke Bashevis-Singer who said that Yiddish is like the Jewish people: it is dying all the time, but it will never finally die. Of course, the numerousness and prosperity experienced by the Jewish community in Azerbaijan and Georgia before (Armenian Jews have always been very few in number) are not the same now. By the way, this prosperity can be explained to a large extent by the fact that in these countries there almost was not any anti-Semitism - in contrast to, for example, Russia and Ukraine, where I once lived. Yes, these communities are much fewer in number now. However, we gradually said goodbye to illusions that in the foreseeable future, all the Jews in all countries would move to Israel, and the Jewish diaspora will disappear. Therefore the Ministry of Diaspora was created relatively recently in order to maintain contact with the community, so that no one said, "But they are only 500 or even 2000 people, why should we take care of them? '. Today we believe that every Jew is important to us, and we understand that life is more complicated than slogans and even in those countries where Jews have hard times, they do not hurry to give up everything and go to Israel. Therefore it is so important to us to maintain religious and cultural ties with all the communities, it is important to work with Jewish youth - because if we leave this work, we will lose the Jews.

- The political elite and the media of Azerbaijan took your statement, made during a visit to the Museum of the Armenian Genocide in Yerevan, with considerable concern. Many people in Baku see this as one more step towards official recognition of the tragic events of 1915 as genocide of the Armenians. Is this view true?


- Let us start with the facts. I actually visited the Armenian Genocide Museum and laid a wreath at the memorial to the dead, and then I made a tour of this museum. I still think that this is absolutely right. It would be unacceptable if, in response to an invitation to visit this museum, I would have said, "Sorry, I cannot, because in this matter, our countries have different political and geopolitical interests." During the tour, I saw that the management of the museum changes the exposure, and I noticed that in this field Yerevan museum definitely has something to learn from the Holocaust Memorial Museum "Yad Vashem", and these two museums would do well to cooperate. I personally think that this cooperation seems to be useful.

- Armenian media, as well as Azerbaijani media basing on the recent reports, claim that you compare the Holocaust with the events of 1915 and almost equalized them.

- I did not say this. Our position on this issue is clear: we are certainly against comparing the Holocaust and equating it to any other tragic event in world history. For example, three years ago, I paid a visit to Lithuania and Latvia, and a little before in Europe it was decided to celebrate the Day of Remembrance of the Victims of Nazism and Stalinist terror. I think I will not surprise anyone if I say that the Stalinist terror was nothing less in its scope and in its devilment than Nazism. Yet at all the press conferences and in all my speeches, I have emphasized that the Holocaust is the Holocaust, it stands alone, but this does not mean that we should forget the victims of Stalinism. Thus, we can work together, we can discuss it, but, to paraphrase Tolstoy, all tragedies are tragic in different ways and should not be compared with the events in Turkey, Rwanda, Nanchine and elsewhere.

- Are there, in your view, the parallels between the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan over Nagorno-Karabakh?


- Probably, certain parallels may exist, but I do not think it's worth doing - just as it is not necessary to draw parallels between the Holocaust and other tragic events of world history. Oddly enough, drawing parallels not only does not help resolve these conflicts, but also prevents this, because any inter-ethnic, inter-religious, regional conflict is a unique combination of several factors. Universal way to solve the conflict does not exist. Academic articles on such comparisons are useless.


- What is your general feeling of visiting Armenia and Georgia? Are those who speak of "Georgian miracle", the unprecedented economic boom in this country, right? And is there a feeling that Armenia is really jammed in the "grip of the blockade?"


- Let me remind you that my visits to both countries were not long - I was there for two days. I could not see and understand a lot of details during my visit. But I really felt that Georgia is on the rise. The pace of new construction and infrastructure development in Georgia is enormous, and this is one of the surest signs of prosperity. But in Armenia, by the way, there is also quite a lot of building., I have not noticed any signs of economic collapse. Quite the contrary: the republic is full of multilingual tourists, and at least tourism is not in decline.


- What is the role of Georgia, Azerbaijan and Armenia in the information war waged by Israel?

- Speaking of the support in the international arena, as it is known, Georgia has repeatedly supported Israel's position in international forums, while Armenia and Azerbaijan have not provided their support to Israel yet. We hope that our more and more activated relations will change this. At the same time, the fact that such a significant Muslim country as Azerbaijan is on friendly terms with Israel is important and is a model for building relationships with other countries in the Islamic world. Our friendly relations with Azerbaijan, Georgia and Armenia clearly show that Ahmadinejad and his supporters and accomplices have no special influence not only in the whole world, but even in their region. And this is also very, very important.