Yevgeny Bazhanov: "China is set for serious relationships with Russia"

Interviewed by the chief editor of Vestnik Kavkaza Maria Sidelnikova

Rector of the Russian Diplomatic Academy, Doctor of Historical Sciences, Professor, Academician of the World Academy of Economics, Academy of Humanities Research, a member of the Academy of Political Sciences of the USA, an honorary doctor of the Beijing People's University and Taiwan Chengchi University Yevgeny Bazhanov told Vestnik Kavkaza about Russian-Chinese relations and the work of the Diplomatic Academy with the states of the Caucasus.

- You are a famous scientist, who is working on China’s problems. How do you evaluate Beijing's strategy towards Russia and the former Soviet space?

- China is set for very serious relationships with us for several reasons.

Firstly, the Chinese are against US hegemony. They see Russia as a country with which they can cooperate in countering this hegemony. They have, and we have, a desire to create a multipolar world in which everyone will cooperate on equal terms rather than compete. It is a difficult task, but it is something that brings us together.

Secondly, we have the same positions on almost all international issues which are important for China and for us. This is the North Korean nuclear problem, and Afghanistan, and the Iranian issue, and the expansion of NATO and the situation in the Middle East. This also unites us.

Thirdly, China is busy with internal reforms, and is interested in a peaceful environment. They call us a rear. Our border is more than four thousand kilometers, it is peaceful, and for China this is of the utmost importance.

In other areas of foreign policy, both China and Russia have a lot of problems. They have a problem with the Americans, Japanese, Vietnamese, Filipinos, and not very simple relations with India. Therefore, China needs to have a peaceful border with Russia to ensure security.

Fourth, the economic factor. They are interested in our energy resources in Siberia and the Far East, in the development of the productive forces of the region.

All of this creates a solid foundation for our relationships with China.

Now Russia has a complicated relationship with the West, and China holds a very correct line. We do not demand that Beijing stay on one line with us and fight. China is our strategic partner, not an ally. And they behave in as friendly a manner as possible, seeking to overcome the differences, or even contradictions between Russia and the West. This corresponds with our interests. We're not going to shut in from the West to fight it. China tactfully leads its line.

Before the beginning of the crisis in Ukraine, the Americans were focused on containing China. The US even began to relocate its fleet from the regions of the Middle East to the Pacific Ocean to contain China, they tried to persuade countries in the region to engage in military preparations, to rally against China, began to put pressure on the Japanese, the South Koreans, the Philippines, Singapore. Now the pressure is a little bit weaker, but the Chinese are well aware that they are still a target for the United States, because the Americans do not like the fact that China is becoming a superpower, is beginning to dominate in the Asia-Pacific region. The Americans themselves are accustomed to dominate there.

Therefore, if you evaluate the position of China as whole, they support us, without being in the position of an ally, because they themselves are under pressure from the US and the Americans are being considered not only as partners in the economy, but also as rivals.

- From time to time there is information in the media about the interests of China in the Caspian region. What is this interest?

- They have an interest in any region. The Chinese economy is a global economy of a superpower state. If you go to Latin America, you will see Chinese goods in every store, on every street you will encounter Chinese workers, engineers who work there. In Africa there were mainly Americans and Soviet representatives once, and now our people are nowhere to be seen - the Americans and Chinese are everywhere. And the Chinese even outperformed the Americans, not only in Asia but also in other regions.

So China is working everywhere, including the Caspian region. This is not just a market for Chinese goods, it is a source of raw materials, energy resources. China does not hide this interest - they're not going to conquer the region, but will cooperate economically.

Is China our opponent? I think this is still far away. We do not see anything alarming in the behavior of China yet, some attempts to downplay Russia are displacing it. It does not behave like the United States, which believes that only they can have a zone of influence, and that their zone of influence is the whole world.

 

- Are there competitors or partners in Central Asia, Russia and China?- Partners, first and foremost. We are members of the same organization - the SCO. The Shanghai Cooperation Organization was begun as a mechanism to address issues of border security after the Soviet Union collapsed. Now it is a full-blooded organization, which deals with security, economic and cultural cooperation issues.Another thing is that the Chinese economy is much more dynamic than ours, they have more goods which they can offer to partners, and they have a large amount of capital, and technologies have appeared. Therefore, they are more active in the field of the economy in Central Asia. There's nothing wrong with that. China does not try to displace us from there by some artificial means. This is healthy competition. We compete with Belarus, Armenia, Kazakhstan, and our other allies.China recognizes that Central Asia is a zone of Russia's special interests, because the countries in the region were part of the Soviet Union, because there are Russian-speaking populations there, because we are kind of mixed, because we have close relationships - humanitarian and any other. Representatives of Asia continue to speak in Russian, many of them are working, studying in Russia. All this remains unchanged. And the Chinese respect all this.Russia and China are concerned about the prospect of the strengthening of extremist forces in Central Asia. This threat comes from Afghanistan. In Central Asia, these forces have a certain bearing, especially among young people, who are vulnerable to exposure to extremists.It is in our best interests and in the interests of China to prevent the strengthening of extremism, especially movements in Central Asia. There is the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region in China, where the same ethnic group live, and the Chinese are afraid that it will all spill onto their territory.We are interested in the normal development of Central Asia. If there is prosperity, there will be less space for extremism. So we have a good agenda with China.China has membership in dozens of international organizations. Nations of the world are intertwined by different organizations. When these organizations didn't exist, the countries competed and fought. But when they are in the same organization, it is easier to negotiate, common interests appear, a place for debate and achieving results appears. This is one of the elements of the policy. We call for the establishment of the maximum number of different international organizations - large and small, regional, subregional. Only if these organizations are not directed against the interests of other countries, such as NATO, for example. We are ready to deal with NATO, but it refuses to have many of the contacts. The West takes displeasure at us because of Ukraine and it is trying to put pressure, and through NATO too. Some representatives of Western countries raise the question of how to eliminate our representative to NATO. I think this will not happen.- During this year, due to circumstances, Russia was forced to refocus energy supplies to China. Kazakhstan, in its turn, has worked in this market for a long time. Can the Chinese economy absorb this amount of hydrocarbons?- The cooperation has only just begun there. We have not really started to supply anything. But when it comes to the maximum, there will be enough places for everyone. The Chinese economy is huge, but they have few of their own resources.Apart from China there are also other countries. The Japanese are highly interested in our energy resources, as is South Korea. When North Korea will be back on its feet, it would be interested in our resources too. Plus Southeast Asia. Therefore, there is not an overabundance of oil and gas in the world in general. So we will find a place for sales.- Please tell us about the cooperation between the Diplomatic Academy and the countries of the South Caucasus ...- In accordance with the decree of the President of the Russian Federation, since 1996 each year we have 15 young diplomats from Azerbaijan, Armenia and Georgia enrolling at the expense of the Russian budget. After relations with Tbilisi became more complicated, students from this country stopped coming, but from Azerbaijan, Armenia, we regularly have 15 people a year. They are representatives of the Ministries of Foreign Affairs, those who are recommended by the state.We offer Bachelor's, Master's and postgraduate courses, and they chose different directions, defend their PhD theses, doctoral dissertations.From 1996 to 2015 we have trained 400-500 diplomats from Armenia, Azerbaijan and Georgia. A diplomat is a rare profession, it's not hundreds of thousands, not even thousands, many of our graduates are occupying senior positions in the Ministries of Foreign Affairs of Armenia and Azerbaijan.In addition, we exchange professors, lecturers and scientists. We regularly send our representatives to Armenia and Azerbaijan. They give lectures, engage in scientific work. We, in our turn, receive representatives of universities of Azerbaijan and Armenia, first of all, the Diplomatic Academies of these countries, as well as universities, various research centers. We are conducting conferences together, exchanging scientific literature. They send their students to our training, and we send ours there. In general, it is a very intense and productive exchange.The Diplomatic Academy of Armenia recently invited me to visit the country to deliver lectures, sign agreements, shake hands, but then our Vice-Rector for Science went to Armenia. Now Azerbaijan has invited me. Let's see who will go.I talked a lot about cooperation in education on the basis of the Russian budget, and there are also representatives of those states who are studying with us at their own expense or at the expense of organizations of the country under a variety of programs. We carry out short-term refresher courses. They come to us at their own expense or at the expense of the organizations of the country.We produce a magazine of the Alumni Association of the Diplomatic Academy, 'the Alma Mater'. The Azerbaijanis whom we are teaching helped to publish one of these issues. A beautiful, interesting publication, and we sent it to the authorities of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and other government structures.- Are there competitors or partners in Central Asia, Russia and China?

- Partners, first and foremost. We are members of the same organization - the SCO. The Shanghai Cooperation Organization was begun as a mechanism to address issues of border security after the Soviet Union collapsed. Now it is a full-blooded organization, which deals with security, economic and cultural cooperation issues.

Another thing is that the Chinese economy is much more dynamic than ours, they have more goods which they can offer to partners, and they have a large amount of capital, and technologies have appeared. Therefore, they are more active in the field of the economy in Central Asia. There's nothing wrong with that. China does not try to displace us from there by some artificial means. This is healthy competition. We compete with Belarus, Armenia, Kazakhstan, and our other allies.

China recognizes that Central Asia is a zone of Russia's special interests, because the countries in the region were part of the Soviet Union, because there are Russian-speaking populations there, because we are kind of mixed, because we have close relationships - humanitarian and any other. Representatives of Asia continue to speak in Russian, many of them are working, studying in Russia. All this remains unchanged. And the Chinese respect all this.

Russia and China are concerned about the prospect of the strengthening of extremist forces in Central Asia. This threat comes from Afghanistan. In Central Asia, these forces have a certain bearing, especially among young people, who are vulnerable to exposure to extremists.

It is in our best interests and in the interests of China to prevent the strengthening of extremism, especially movements in Central Asia. There is the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region in China, where the same ethnic group live, and the Chinese are afraid that it will all spill onto their territory.

We are interested in the normal development of Central Asia. If there is prosperity, there will be less space for extremism. So we have a good agenda with China.

China has membership in dozens of international organizations. Nations of the world are intertwined by different organizations. When these organizations didn't exist, the countries competed and fought. But when they are in the same organization, it is easier to negotiate, common interests appear, a place for debate and achieving results appears. This is one of the elements of the policy. We call for the establishment of the maximum number of different international organizations - large and small, regional, subregional. Only if these organizations are not directed against the interests of other countries, such as NATO, for example. We are ready to deal with NATO, but it refuses to have many of the contacts. The West takes displeasure at us because of Ukraine and it is trying to put pressure, and through NATO too. Some representatives of Western countries raise the question of how to eliminate our representative to NATO. I think this will not happen.

- During this year, due to circumstances, Russia was forced to refocus energy supplies to China. Kazakhstan, in its turn, has worked in this market for a long time. Can the Chinese economy absorb this amount of hydrocarbons?

- The cooperation has only just begun there. We have not really started to supply anything. But when it comes to the maximum, there will be enough places for everyone. The Chinese economy is huge, but they have few of their own resources.

Apart from China there are also other countries. The Japanese are highly interested in our energy resources, as is South Korea. When North Korea will be back on its feet, it would be interested in our resources too. Plus Southeast Asia. Therefore, there is not an overabundance of oil and gas in the world in general. So we will find a place for sales.

- Please tell us about the cooperation between the Diplomatic Academy and the countries of the South Caucasus ...

- In accordance with the decree of the President of the Russian Federation, since 1996 each year we have 15 young diplomats from Azerbaijan, Armenia and Georgia enrolling at the expense of the Russian budget. After relations with Tbilisi became more complicated, students from this country stopped coming, but from Azerbaijan, Armenia, we regularly have 15 people a year. They are representatives of the Ministries of Foreign Affairs, those who are recommended by the state.

We offer Bachelor's, Master's and postgraduate courses, and they chose different directions, defend their PhD theses, doctoral dissertations.

From 1996 to 2015 we have trained 400-500 diplomats from Armenia, Azerbaijan and Georgia. A diplomat is a rare profession, it's not hundreds of thousands, not even thousands, many of our graduates are occupying senior positions in the Ministries of Foreign Affairs of Armenia and Azerbaijan.

In addition, we exchange professors, lecturers and scientists. We regularly send our representatives to Armenia and Azerbaijan. They give lectures, engage in scientific work. We, in our turn, receive representatives of universities of Azerbaijan and Armenia, first of all, the Diplomatic Academies of these countries, as well as universities, various research centers. We are conducting conferences together, exchanging scientific literature. They send their students to our training, and we send ours there. In general, it is a very intense and productive exchange.

The Diplomatic Academy of Armenia recently invited me to visit the country to deliver lectures, sign agreements, shake hands, but then our Vice-Rector for Science went to Armenia. Now Azerbaijan has invited me. Let's see who will go.

I talked a lot about cooperation in education on the basis of the Russian budget, and there are also representatives of those states who are studying with us at their own expense or at the expense of organizations of the country under a variety of programs. We carry out short-term refresher courses. They come to us at their own expense or at the expense of the organizations of the country.

We produce a magazine of the Alumni Association of the Diplomatic Academy, 'the Alma Mater'. The Azerbaijanis whom we are teaching helped to publish one of these issues. A beautiful, interesting publication, and we sent it to the authorities of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and other government structures.