Ilham Aliyev: "The sense of nationalism must not prevail over the sense of justice"

Yesterday Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev was the guest of the program 'Opinion' on the Rossiya24 channel. He answered questions related to the 70th anniversary of the Victory in the Great Patriotic War, the development of the energy sector of Azerbaijan, the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict, and preparations for the first European Games.

- We are meeting on the eve of Victory Day, the 70th anniversary of the victory in the Great Patriotic War, perhaps the main event which brings nations and events of common history together. What is Victory Day for Azerbaijan and for you personally?

- This is a big celebration for us, which we solemnly celebrate for a few days before Victory Day and on it. Meetings with veterans, festivities are held in Azerbaijan. This holiday is very dear for us, and it is an official state holiday. Unfortunately, in the first years of independence, the Azerbaijani authorities at that time eliminated this holiday. It was only when Heydar Aliyev came to the post of President in 1993, when Victory Day was declared a national holiday, it is a day off. Thus, historical justice has been restored.

We have a very good attitude towards veterans. The program to provide cars to all veterans was completed this year. Apartments, land for recreation, cash rewards are also given to them. This is the pride of our nation, we honor the memory of the victims and believe that the young generation should be raised on the example of selfless heroism, love of their homeland, so that the traditions of heroism and love of their homeland continue.

The festival brings together all the nations of the former Soviet Union, and should bring together all those who participated in the victory over fascism. We are proud of the fact that 700 thousand representatives of Azerbaijan took part in the war, more than 300,000 were killed, 123 people were awarded the title of Hero of the Soviet Union. So, we have something to be proud of. And we cherish the memory of our common victory.

 

- I allow myself to say what you once said, behind the scenes, that the memory of the Great Patriotic War is as sacred for you as the memory of your father. Just as we preserve the memory of our ancestors, the memory of our loved ones, it is important to preserve the memories of this historic event, of this historical tragedy. But how to do it, when there are attempts to rewrite history around you, and this vaccine of war no longer affects many people?

 

- We observe with great concern the attempts to rewrite history, to belittle the role of the Soviet Army in the victory over fascism, as well as attempts to make heroes out of Nazi criminals and their followers and those who share their ideology. After all, some time ago for all of us it seemed that fascism was finished completely. It was an evil that humanity has never seen in its history. Unfortunately, as a result of the efforts of certain circles, a propaganda campaign, the younger generation around the world, if they are constantly being told distorted historical facts, becomes susceptible to this virus, not knowing the true story. We see marches, torch processions, demonstrations of neo-fascists in many regions of the world. It is of great concern. We cherish our sacred history, the feat of all nations of the Soviet Union and other allied countries to put an end to this nightmare. It must live in the memory of generations. I think the responsibility is now lying on the politicians, the leaders of the countries and influential public figures who hold the great feat of our fathers and grandfathers as sacred, and must constantly prove it with their activities.

For some time we thought that everyone knows everything, that there are so many historical documents, so there cannot be two opinions. But it turns out that there can be. And the saddest thing is that the younger generation - those who are now 20-25 years old, while going to the fascist marches, are essentially discrediting our common victory. And if this trend will grow in the future, then at some point the story will be turned upside down. I think that at this stage all the social structures that share the conviction of which I speak must coordinate their actions, they should work actively in terms of informing the public of the historical truth and respect, especially young people, in order to counter the glorification of Nazism and rewriting history.

 

- Are you still confident that a few decades later the situation will not fundamentally change for the worse?

 

- A huge responsibility lies on politicians, on government officials, on public figures, on writers, on intellectuals, so we constantly keep this topic in the spotlight. Maybe I will repeat myself, but it is because I sincerely worry about this, I personally felt that after another 10-15 years, there wouldn’t be two opinions on this matter. But you see how things have changed. And the countries that endured huge human losses and suffering from Nazi occupation became objects of manipulation to some extent, some psychological attack, brainwashing. It's a very disturbing trend. This is not only a shame in terms of distortion of historical justice, it is a worrying trend for the future of the world. This suggests that this ideology is, unfortunately, still alive. This is a great danger to us all. - Will you be in Moscow on May 9? - Yes, of course I will be. I was at the last anniversary in Moscow. Usually I spend May 9 in Baku with the veterans, we hold celebrations. But this year, I will meet with them a little bit early, and on May 9 I will be in Moscow.

 

- You said that Victory Day and the Great Patriotic War bring together all the nations of the post-soviet space. Will the Armenian and the Azerbaijani people become closer on this day?

 

- It is difficult to say about it. Regarding the relations between our people, I am convinced, as opposed to our Armenian counterparts, we cannot be enemies forever. We lived together in one state, we fought together against fascism. So I think that there will be an understanding in the Armenian leadership that it is necessary to put an end to the hostility, to put an end to the occupation. After all, the main obstacle for the normalization of relations between our countries is the continued occupation of Azerbaijani territory by Armenia, which has no basis – neither historical nor legal, nor political. It is known that the supreme international body – the UN Security Council – adopted four resolutions, which demanded the immediate and unconditional withdrawal of Armenian occupying forces from Azerbaijani territory. It took more than 20 years, but these resolutions have remained on paper. That is, international law is violated, the rights of more than a million people, who have been driven from their land, are violated. And among them, by the way, are a lot of veterans.

We are concerned about the fact that, although the Armenian people also suffered from the Nazis, many representatives of the Armenian nation honorably fought in the Great Patriotic War, trends that are taking place in Armenia today are very difficult for us to understand. There is a glorification of the Nazis, those who served Hitler, their names are known. Recently, the Azerbaijani public, our veterans, have sent letters to the heads of friendly states, including the Russian President, expressing their concern at the fact that Armenia named streets, houses, squares, in honor of those who fought on the side of Hitler. It is of great concern. I think that the sense of nationalism must not prevail over the sense of justice.

At this stage, if there would be an opportunity for the veterans of Armenia and Azerbaijan to meet, perhaps they would have sat behind a table and amicably remembered those glorious pages of our common history. But unfortunately, the Armenian side prevents contacts between the public in every way. Attempts to organize mutual meetings of the public, deputies, were made several years ago, and we even thought about expanding this format, but when Armenia saw that this leads to a rapprochement and to some feelings of friendship, it was discontinued at once. Because the main problem is the fact that the occupation continues, and, unfortunately, Armenia wants to maximize this process, but they should realize that this cannot last forever, it will end, and the sooner the better.

 

- Nevertheless, the President of Armenia will visit Moscow as well. Could any meetings between you two be organized?-          Our contacts are not planned for the period. We had meetings last year – in summer in Sochi, initiated by the President of Russia. Later, in autumn State Secretary Kerry and President of France Hollande organized meetings. We thought that we could have moved forward. However, in less than two weeks after the Paris meeting, where we had agreed to reduce the tension on the fire line, Armenia organized wide-scale military exercises in the occupied Agdam Region with the participation of 47 thousand soldiers. There was no necessity for this. It was a direct provocation aimed at violating the negotiations. We hadn’t been reacting for several days, as we thought that we should have reduced the tension. But the enemy attempted to attack our positions with Mi-24 helicopters. As a result of our response, one of the helicopters was destroyed. This enabled Armenia to accuse Azerbaijan of a provocation.Since November, when it happened, till now, we have had no contacts. We didn’t organize exercises on Armenian territory. They did it in the Agdam Region. It confirms that all the efforts of the Armenian side are aimed at preserving the status quo, even though the co-chairs of the Minsk Group – Russia, France, the USA – have many times stated that the status quo is unacceptable and it should be changed. The process of de-occupation should be started. The Armenian side doesn’t agree with this and prevents the talks.At the moment we have no contacts, and I cannot say when they can be restored.-          The rewriting of history is a rather effective instrument as a way to put pressure on Russia and its allies. Another instrument is economic sanctions. Russia has been living under them for more than a year. They also influence other countries. Russia is overcoming the consequences and crises. Does Azerbaijan feel them?-          I should say that there is no big influence on our economy. Money transfers by Azerbaijanis who live and work in Russia have reduced. There are many of them – wealthy people, businessmen. Of course, according to the traditions of our nation, relatives heal each other. Someone who has an opportunity helps those who don't have such an opportunity. We are witnessing a reduction in the financial support from Azerbaijanis who live in Russia. However, it is only a small part of our GDP and it doesn’t influence our economy globally.In general, living standards are growing in Azerbaijan. This year the economy has grown by 5.3% in three months. The most important index is the non-oil economy. It has grown by 7%. Thus, even though oil prices have dropped and there are sanctions against Russia (Russia is one of our main trading partners), the diversification of the economy which has been held and reforms enable us to develop dynamically.Speaking about sanctions, our position has always been the same. It is not a secret. We stand against such a form of international pressure. When the situation was discussed in PACE, the whole Azerbaijani delegation stood against anti-Russian sanctions. And I think we showed an example to those who state that they are Russia’s allies, but when they have to demonstrate their position in PACE they prefer to duck and cover. This is another argument, and I think Russian society should be aware of this. That’s when the position of friendship should be shown. When everything is well, anybody can say sweet nothings and praise the friend. But when the position should be shown not in Moscow, behind the scenes, but in Strasbourg, this is how dignity and the best personal skills are shown. So, I would like to repeat that we stand against such a form of pressure, it is counterproductive. We stand for a dialogue, finding a solution to difficult problems in an atmosphere of confidence. Of course, confidence between Russia and the West has been partially lost, but I think there should be efforts to restore it. There are many threats to the world, to our region, and to Europe – extremism, radicalism, terrorism, revival of fascism which we can see on the European continent. These problems should be solved together.-          Azerbaijan counts on gas extraction. This is logical, considering the fact that you have such resources. But there have been attempts to rewrite this history as well. Today, many hopes are connected with Azerbaijan in the project of the South Gas Corridor. They try to present it as an alternative to Russian gas projects in Europe. Please tell us about scale of planned exporting and possible outlet markets for the gas. 

- Nevertheless, the President of Armenia will visit Moscow as well. Could any meetings between you two be organized?

-          Our contacts are not planned for the period. We had meetings last year – in summer in Sochi, initiated by the President of Russia. Later, in autumn State Secretary Kerry and President of France Hollande organized meetings. We thought that we could have moved forward. However, in less than two weeks after the Paris meeting, where we had agreed to reduce the tension on the fire line, Armenia organized wide-scale military exercises in the occupied Agdam Region with the participation of 47 thousand soldiers. There was no necessity for this. It was a direct provocation aimed at violating the negotiations. We hadn’t been reacting for several days, as we thought that we should have reduced the tension. But the enemy attempted to attack our positions with Mi-24 helicopters. As a result of our response, one of the helicopters was destroyed. This enabled Armenia to accuse Azerbaijan of a provocation.

Since November, when it happened, till now, we have had no contacts. We didn’t organize exercises on Armenian territory. They did it in the Agdam Region. It confirms that all the efforts of the Armenian side are aimed at preserving the status quo, even though the co-chairs of the Minsk Group – Russia, France, the USA – have many times stated that the status quo is unacceptable and it should be changed. The process of de-occupation should be started. The Armenian side doesn’t agree with this and prevents the talks.

At the moment we have no contacts, and I cannot say when they can be restored.

-          The rewriting of history is a rather effective instrument as a way to put pressure on Russia and its allies. Another instrument is economic sanctions. Russia has been living under them for more than a year. They also influence other countries. Russia is overcoming the consequences and crises. Does Azerbaijan feel them?

-          I should say that there is no big influence on our economy. Money transfers by Azerbaijanis who live and work in Russia have reduced. There are many of them – wealthy people, businessmen. Of course, according to the traditions of our nation, relatives heal each other. Someone who has an opportunity helps those who don't have such an opportunity. We are witnessing a reduction in the financial support from Azerbaijanis who live in Russia. However, it is only a small part of our GDP and it doesn’t influence our economy globally.

In general, living standards are growing in Azerbaijan. This year the economy has grown by 5.3% in three months. The most important index is the non-oil economy. It has grown by 7%. Thus, even though oil prices have dropped and there are sanctions against Russia (Russia is one of our main trading partners), the diversification of the economy which has been held and reforms enable us to develop dynamically.

Speaking about sanctions, our position has always been the same. It is not a secret. We stand against such a form of international pressure. When the situation was discussed in PACE, the whole Azerbaijani delegation stood against anti-Russian sanctions. And I think we showed an example to those who state that they are Russia’s allies, but when they have to demonstrate their position in PACE they prefer to duck and cover. This is another argument, and I think Russian society should be aware of this. That’s when the position of friendship should be shown. When everything is well, anybody can say sweet nothings and praise the friend. But when the position should be shown not in Moscow, behind the scenes, but in Strasbourg, this is how dignity and the best personal skills are shown. So, I would like to repeat that we stand against such a form of pressure, it is counterproductive. We stand for a dialogue, finding a solution to difficult problems in an atmosphere of confidence. Of course, confidence between Russia and the West has been partially lost, but I think there should be efforts to restore it. There are many threats to the world, to our region, and to Europe – extremism, radicalism, terrorism, revival of fascism which we can see on the European continent. These problems should be solved together.

-          Azerbaijan counts on gas extraction. This is logical, considering the fact that you have such resources. But there have been attempts to rewrite this history as well. Today, many hopes are connected with Azerbaijan in the project of the South Gas Corridor. They try to present it as an alternative to Russian gas projects in Europe. Please tell us about scale of planned exporting and possible outlet markets for the gas. 

 

- We are, frankly, also worried about this trend, and this information background. Although if you look at the statements of high-level officials, there are usually no such assessments. This background is being created by these so-called experts, political scientists and influential circles of structures. And the obsession with propaganda makes someone perceive this as reality. On our side, no one had ever made such a statement, and we never considered our project as some kind of alternative. The energy policy of Azerbaijan is being carried out for 21 years, since 1994, when we started to work on the development of the largest oil fields in our country. At the same time several oil pipelines were built, we still do not have access to the ocean. Gas reserves were discovered in the late 1990s. Since then, we have been actively working to ensure that gas is produced, and we had already produced a certain amount. Since 2007 we were even able to export some small amounts to our neighbors – Turkey, Georgia, Iran, and, by the way, Russia. But we know we have very large stocks, so of course we need to implement them. And the Southern Gas Corridor project was planned long ago. Previously, it was called the Nabucco project.

 

- Now it is called Nabucco 2.0...

 

- Yes, but it is called this by the ones whom I have just talked about. When we saw that the Nabucco project is not viable, namely because there was neither the political will nor the financial resources, nor the coordination of efforts, it seemed to us that someone wants to benefit at our expense. Azerbaijan's role in the project was simply in being the raw material base, which does not suit us. And the project was essentially left off the agenda. But we had to sell our stocks. And we consider Turkey and Europe to be the main market for our gas, because our other neighbors, Iran and Russia, have their own stocks and the market is quite small in Georgia. Therefore, we have initiated the Southern Gas Corridor project, and entered into an agreement with Turkey on the construction of the TANAP project (Trans-Anatolian Gas Pipeline) in 2012, which was part of the Southern Gas Corridor. Now this project is already being realized. The design work has already been carried out, and the construction works are not that far away. The first stage is to deliver a great amount of Azerbaijani gas to the Turkish market, and then through Turkey to Europe. This project will implement our large gas reserves.

 

I cannot say that it will bring instantaneous profit, because the costs are very large and we need to reimburse them. Besides, the profit from the gas is not even comparable to the profits from the oil. Still, the main source of currency for us is oil exports, which have now stabilized, and will be so for a long time. Of course, the gas-oil ratio will strengthen our economy, and will greatly enhance the role of Azerbaijan, its importance for consumers, and every country wants its role and importance to grow. Thus, we will expand our capabilities.

 

The Southern Gas Corridor project is a field development of the Shah Deniz-2 deposit. As a part of this project, 16 billion cubic meters of gas is expected to be sold, in addition to the 8 billion that we have already sold. Of these, 6 billion will be received by Turkey and 10 billion by some European countries. That is, of course, not comparable with the volume that Europe receives from Norway, Algeria or Russia.

 

- I propose to finish with the topic which we usually end our meeting with. The topic that always brings people together and not only in the post-Soviet space, but in all of the world. Sport. The European Games which will take place in Azerbaijan soon. The Flame of the First European Games has already been sparked ...

 

- We expect that this event will be a celebration for athletes all over Europe. For us, it was a big responsibility. Azerbaijan was the only candidate to host these games. If we had not agreed to it, this idea would have remained an idea. I should point out the exceptional role of the President of the European Olympic Committee, Mr. Patrick Hickey, who has always promoted this idea. It was a big responsibility for us, but also it was a great honor. We had almost 2.5 years to host the event, which is comparable to the Olympic Games. More than 6,000 athletes and 20 kinds of sports. But we have coped with the task. The torch has already been lit in the ancient Zoroastrian temple of Ateshgah. Azerbaijan is a land of many religions grounds: Zoroastrianism, Islam, Christianity, Judaism. The ambiance of brotherhood among people and inter-religious cooperation is established in our country.

 

The torch is now travelling our country. But along with this, we can see some attempts to discredit the Games. And we are surprised and puzzled by this fact. Why does someone need this? It is almost as if someone can't stand the fact that Azerbaijan may carry out such an event. So now we are in the same place that you have been on the eve of Sochi – discredits and lies are all around, people name astronomical figures that we have spent. To be precise, the operating expenses to carry out these games are just several hundred million dollars total. And 90% of sports facilities have been either already built or their construction began before the decision was taken. That is, we have not built those for the Games. As well as the transport infrastructure of Baku, that was developed a long time before the Games.

 

A campaign of lies, hatred and anger is now upon us. But this is not important. And I am sure that we will be able to spend this holiday in an atmosphere of friendship and celebration of sport. Our main guests will of course be athletes, but we invite everyone who wants to participate in this festival – tourists, ordinary citizens of the European countries and the CIS. We want to make them feel at home, in a good atmosphere.

 

Also, I do wish good luck to the Russian team, I think that Russia will be the main favorite of the Games.

 

- I sincerely wish you to survive the information war, as we survived it with the Olympics, and I also wish the Azerbaijani team great sporting victories.