Interview by Oleg Kusov, Moscow. Exclusively to Vestnik Kavkaza
Interesting people are always welcome in the studio of Vestnik Kavkaza. Oleg Kusov gives every guest in the studio an opportunity to speak their minds. Conversations are not only centered on the Caucasus. A half-hour conversation over tea flies quickly. The show "Take My Word" films and records its conversations as well as offering them in text form.
- Hello, Ramiz! Usually we don’t read biographies of our guests, but I think it is necessary to do in your case. Correct me, if I say something wrong.
Ramiz Abutalybov was born on October 27th, 1937, in Gyanja. His father was from Ordubad, his mother was from Baku. In 1960 he graduated from the Geology Department of Azerbaijani State University. He participated in the construction of the Baksovet (today Icheri Shekher) and Sakhil metro stations. He worked in the State Committee for Science and Engineering of the Council of Ministers of the Azerbaijani SSR. In 1968 he entered the International Organizations Department in the All-Union Academy of Foreign Trade in Moscow. After three years in the academy, he worked in the Foreign Ministry of the USSR. In late 1971 he got a job in UNESCO and continued where he had been working in 1972-1979 and 1985-1993. In 1974, according to a special order of Heydar Aliyev, he visited Alikper Topchibashi, son of Alimardan Topchibashiyev and grandson of Hasan-bek Zardabi. Due to him UNESCO organized exhibitions of Azerbaijani carpets, ancient manuscripts, concerts of the state dance ensemble. The exhibition “Architecture of Azerbaijan” took place in London. The first scientific conference on Azerbaijanology was held in Strasbourg. The first international conference on oriental carpet art and an exhibition of the French designer Richard Nieper took place in Baku. When Ramiz Abutalybov returned from Paris in 1993 he participated in pre-operational work on the inclusion of the cultural monuments of Azerbaijan on the World Cultural Heritage List (Icheri-Shekher), mugam on the Non-Material Cultural Heritage List and Azerbaijani manuscripts in the catalogue of The World Memory. He participated in the proposal of Alim Gasymov as a candidate for the best performer of the world. Your biography is published in Wikipedia and on other websites. What would you add or correct?
- Thank you so much! The only thing is that in 2010 I was granted the Pushkin Medal by Russian President Medvedev.
- That is very important! Was it the 90th anniversary of Azerbaijani diplomacy?
- No, the anniversary was in Baku. But in Moscow I was awarded the Pushkin Medal in 2010 for contribution to the development of Russian and French cultural ties.
- In 1974, according to a special order of Heydar Aliyev, he visited Alikper Topchibashi, son of Alimardan Topchibashiyev. Who is Alimardan Topchibashiyev? He was a deputy of the First State Duma of Russia, the head of the parliament of the Azerbaijani Democratic Republic (1918-1920). When Soviet power was established in Azerbaijan, he emigrated. He participated in the Genoa and Lausanne conferences, where the illegal occupation of Azerbaijan by the Red Army was discussed. Excuse me, but the CPSU didn’t encourage such interests. How did Moscow react to the idea?
- Alekper-bek, son of Alimardan-bek, had many relatives in Azerbaijan. And before me, composer Rauf Gadzhiyev visited him. When Gadzhiyev returned to Baku, he wrote a message to Heydar Aliyev that there was a man who had a rich archive and he wanted to visit Azerbaijan. I don’t know why, but it didn’t work. I wrote another report to Heydar Aliyev, after Rauf Gadzhiyev. And I handed the report to Heydar Aliyev through the deputy chairman of the Council of Ministries of Azerbaijan, Ibrahimov. Aliyev found it interesting, and in a few days he invited me for a talk. I briefly told him about the man. He said: “Let’s do it!” I said that it would be nice to invite him. And a few months later Alekper-bek Topchibashi (he changed his name from Topchibashiyev to Topchibashi) received an invitation. Heydar Aliyev ordered that the Friendship Society invite him. It was a society of friendship with foreign countries. They invited him to Baku. Unfortunately, he didn’t come, as he got sick and later died. But he was very grateful that he received an official invitation from the republic.
- What year was it?
- I talked to Heydar Aliyev in 1974. And he ordered me to deal with it.
- It is natural today to hear about such things. But in 1974 one could be dismissed from the party for this.
- Yes, but I think Heydar Aliyev’s weight…
- He realized. The leader realized the importance, the essence…
- We couldn’t call the son of Alimardan-bek an anti-Soviet person, an anti-communist. He was an old person, a scientist, an Orientalist. He developed a wonderful map of Turkic nations living in the world. He worked with the well-known Orientalist Rene Grousset. He was far away from politics.
- At about the same time, Vladimir Vysotsky addressed the authorities of the North Ossetian Autonomous Republic to issue him the title Honored Artist of North Ossetia, as he used to be a leading singer of the North Ossetian Philharmonic Hall. It was important for him not because of ambitions, as he actually was a People’s Artist of the Union. But an Honored Artist was paid more for a concert than a common one. But the authorities of North Ossetia didn’t do this. And we can say that they didn’t realize his importance. But Heydar Aliyev saw the importance of the event. You were awarded the French Légion d'honneur for your contribution to the development of cultural ties between the countries. When I visited France, I heard that the award is the dream of almost all French citizens. How did you get it?
- After my meeting with Alekper-bek Topchibashi, I began to study the history of emigration. Gradually a circle of people which whom I communicated appeared. It was not only Azerbaijani emigration, but also Russian emigration, “white emigration.” I knew the son of Rear Admiral Pavel Steletsky, who was a pilot in the French Army. He gifted three pictures by Aivazovsky to the Sevastopol Museum. Today they are presented in the Black Sea Fleet Museum in Sevastopol. There was trust between us. It is difficult to explain why, but they trusted me; probably for my personal skills.
- I think these are the skills of a diplomat.
- An Azerbaijani gifted a rare picture by Philipp Malyavin, a Russian artist – an intra vital portrait of Lenin in the Kremlin. Now it is shown in the State History Museum of Russia in Moscow. I knew Bonin. She was an Azerbaijani, a French writer who presented me many documents about Ivan Bunin. Now they are stored in the Museum of Tsvetayeva. Their letters. At the same time, when I lived in Baku, I tried to promote France in Azerbaijan; especially after 1991, when it was alright to praise the West. I wrote many historic and publicist articles about France. Thus, perhaps after all these things it was decided to award me for the cooperation between our countries. It wasn’t the year of my anniversary, or my birthday or a holiday. It was Jacques Chirac’s decision in 1998. But I was awarded in the French embassy in Baku.
- I think there are not so many foreigners who have the award, especially from Azerbaijan.
- Today many people have it.
- Do you mean from the Caucasus?
- I don’t know about the Caucasus, but as for Azerbaijan, Mr. President Ilham Aliyev has.
- That is obvious.
- His wife Mehriban-hanum has. We have a social activist, Guseinova. There are some other people. Novruz Mamedov from the presidential administration has. He is a wonderful expert on the French language.
- Let me ask you about Azerbaijani-French contacts. Are these contacts firm today?
- I think that today we have good ties with France, as many arrangements are carried out by the Heydar Aliyev Fund, which is headed by Mehriban-hanum Aliyeva. I don’t mention concerts and exhibitions. The Heydar Aliyev Fund is participating in establishing the Islamic Department in the Louvre. It needs the support of the Fund. In Strasbourg a church was reconstructed. Mrs. President builds contacts with French cultural activists. So we have firm cultural contacts with France. I think it will continue. I have read today that a mugam concert was held in Lyon two days ago. So the work is being carried out not only in Paris, but also in other cities. Last year the Fund organized a big event “Days of Azerbaijan” at the Cote d’-Azur. And Mrs. President organizes Days of Azerbaijan in various regions of France.
- It means the French are interested in Azerbaijani art, aren’t they?
- Yes, they are. Recently Mr. Hollande visited Baku. He was in Azerbaijan for a day. The French oil company Total and others participate in business projects in Azerbaijan. So our relations develop steadily.
- I remember a joint movie in which our famous actor Depardieu played…
- Depardieu visited us…
- A citizen of the Russian Federation…
- The Caucasus has always attracted the French. Dumas visited the Caucasus. He wrote about the trip. And he wrote a chapter about Azerbaijan. He visited Karabakh and Baku. So the line continues.
To be continued
