Interview by Oleg Kusov exclusively for Vestnik Kavkaza
Today Vestnik Kavkaza’s guest is Alexander Goryanin, a writer and historian.
- Alexander, when did you last visit the Caucasus? What were your impressions from the visit?
- Unfortunately, I visited it long ago, the last time I visited Baku was five years ago. It was the film festival “East-West.” As I have many good friends there, they were glad to show me different places outside Baku, for example the fire-worship temple. I think they showed me typical tourist places. It wasn’t my first trip to Azerbaijan. The year before, I had travelled south of Baku right to the Iranian border – Astara, Lenkoran, and then up to the Lerik River to the water ridges, I saw stone tree groves. They are not really stone, they are called stone trees, as they go under water. In fact they are real trees. I saw the Caucasus, or it is better to say, Azerbaijani exoticism and beauty.
- Not only the capital, but the whole country.
- Yes. As for Baku, I explored it throughout, not only the Old City which is big and varied, but also the new districts of Baku.
- It is a pleasure to take a walk on the avenue.
- Yes. I wrote articles on Azerbaijan, Azerbaijani history, how Azerbaijan became a part of the Russian Empire, the USSR, its withdrawal from the USSR. I was especially interested in the events of the First World War, when the result of the First World War was determined in Baku (I don’t know why nobody writes about it). WWI ended as a war of engines. The Germans began their final attack in 1918. They managed to do it as the Russian Front disappeared after the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk. They focused on their Western Front and started the last attack on Paris. They could have won the war, but they were deprived of all their fuel sources: Mosul was occupied by the UK. They had only one hope -that the Turkish army would quickly occupy Baku. The pipeline between Baku and Batumi was built in the Tsarist-era, then oil could be transported by steamboats to Bulgaria and after that by railway… In general it took a maximum of two weeks to deliver the oil. But the Battle of Baku, which was headed by Georgi Dokuchayev, the Russian general, postponed the Turkish attack on Baku by 6 weeks. Probably these six weeks were crucial for the war. And for a second time the fate of the world was determined in Baku during the Second World War.
- You mean importance of Baku oil again.
- Yes. I am sure that the USSR couldn’t have won the Great Patriotic War without Baku oil.
- Many studies state this.
- And the fact that the Baku miracle was fulfilled, even though some oil producers and equipment were evacuated across the Caspian Sea to the region of thd Second Baku, oil production went on, and our troops had enough fuel, and in the end the USSR won. This is a very important city and a very important region. And Azerbaijan was the only republic of the USSR which wasn’t subsidized.
- And Russia.
- Russia and Azerbaijan. All the others were subsidized. Russia should feel special gratitude to Azerbaijan. Of course it should have the best relations with all former republics, in honor of the years of common history, people’s contacts, personal contacts when people were friends, served in the army together, had dates with girls and had wonderful memories. I say banal things, and we should have warm relations with everybody, but for me Azerbaijan is number one on the list.
- Speaking about the current relations between Moscow and Baku, what are their peculiarities?
- The sides have different expectations from their relations. Azerbaijan hopes that Russia will help it in the settlement of Azerbaijan's main problem – the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. Russia cannot solve the problem in the way Azerbaijan wants, as Russia has another ally which is also very important – Armenia. Armenia and Azerbaijan have polar views on the issue. I am afraid the settlement of the conflict will take many years or even decades. As for all other spheres, I think Azerbaijan is very patient and often meets Russia halfway. If we forget about the Karabakh problem, which is almost impossible, I think the relations are quite warm and have great potential for development.
- Speaking about relations between Russia and the South Caucasus, is there cause for optimism?
- Of course there is. Russia cannot escape from our former brotherly republics, and they cannot do it either. We will stay neighbors forever. All these three republics are situated in the cultural space of Russia; of course they are culturally independent, but in a broad sense they stayed inside the Russian language, cultural and information field.
- But Western NGOs are actively working in Georgia and Armenia.
- Why not? There should be sound competitiveness. We shouldn’t relax.
- Can Russia win the competition in the near future? I don’t mean we are losing, but I mean protecting its positions.
- You know I think “to win the competition” is the wrong approach. Competition will always be there, and it can grow. Russia should strengthen its efforts in the competition. That’s all.
- In one of your interviews you saidthat many myths about Russia were created by foreigners.
- But we adopted them.
- Who created them?
- The well-known example is Potemkin villages. We all know that Catherine the Great took diplomats, the Austrian Emperor and Polish King to a trip to show them newly acquired lands – Novorossia and Crimea. Participants in the excursions were shocked by Russia's achievements, new towns, shipbuilding facilities, and so on. They looked depressed, as Austria passed through an unsuccessful period and the last battle with Turkey, while Poland was in a deep crisis. But what could they do? They had to swallow their dissatisfaction. And suddenly, 20 years later, when the geopolitical situation had changed, one of the participants of the trip, Gelberg, the Westphalia ambassador to Russia, wrote in his book that everything was fake – these were painted pictures, no towns, no villages, and they ran cattle at night from one place to another. It was a fact that the delegation sailed down the Dnepr River and landed at night to take a rest. It was summer, days were long, while nights were short. Even today it is impossible to run cattle from one place to another, using trucks. But Gilberg wrote that they recognized same cows in a new place. The enlightened audience didn’t know about logistics much – either they believed in this or they pretended that they believed or considered this as evidence that Russia’s successes were painted pictures. However, in reality they were real. This is a bright example of a myth which was created in envy of Russia. But more than 200 years later it is still alive. And it was adopted by the Russians. Supporters of the European path were glad to believe in it and repeated the myth all the time. If you write the word “Potemkin” in an internet search service in English, you will see many thousands of links: sometimes it mentions the movie “The Battleship Potemkin”, sometimes it mentions Prince Potemkin himself. But all the others are numerous…
- … country, country, country…
- Not country, but for instance, Potemkin budget, Potemkin disarmament.
- You mean allegory.
- Yes. It is a psychological trap from which the Western propaganda (I use the word “propaganda” because this is true) cannot find a way out.
