Georgy Kalatozishvili, Tbilisi. Exclusively to Vestnik Kavkaza
Discussions on the reasons for the five-day war in 2008 still continue in Georgia. Five years have passed since the tragic events, while there are still two opposite opinions in the Georgian society. Vestnik Kavkaza presents interviews with typical representatives of the points of view. Philosopher Zaza Shatirishvili and the former head of the state secretariat, writer and political scientists Petre Mamradze shared their opinions.
Zaza Shatirishvili: August is a risky month for starting wars. The First World War began in August and was crucial for the Russian Empire. The whole division of Samsonov was killed. General Samsonov committed suicide. For us August is a fatal month as well: the military operation in Abkhazia in 1992 began in August.
The August war 2008 had serious consequences for not only Georgia, but also for the West. It was the revenge of Russia. It recouped for the dissolution of the USSR and for events on the Balkans, Kosovo, and other defeats. For us it was a moment of truth – a part of our long struggle against the empire which tries to suppress Georgia’s independence. The story is not over. It is early to sum up the results.
- So, you believe the war was caused not by decisions of certain politicians and passing interests, but by deeper world-outlook contradictions, don’t you?
- One statement doesn’t clash with another. We can consider it both locally and globally. We can say that Saakashvili made a big mistake and rose to it, like Condoleezza Rice writes in her memoirs; and it is true. On the other hand, the Russian-Georgian and the Russian-Caucasian wars have been lasting for 400 years. The war of 2008 can be called a clash of civilizations. The statements don’t contradict each other. The five-day war was a result of a complex of reasons.
Pavel Mamradze. My book about the five-day war is titled “Adventure 08.08.08.” It was translated in Russian, but I haven’t found a publisher yet. When Saakashvili came in office, he began to prepare for a military return of Abkhazia and South Ossetia into Georgia. He acted devotedly and enthusiastically moving to the goal. I have many times participated in holding him from thoughtless acts together with my Western colleagues. It happened before 2008 – tragic events took place in July 2004 and spring 2007. However, nobody could hold him in August 2008, and he began the military and political adventure which failed.
On August 8 pulpits, red carpets, national flags, and fireworks were carried toward Tskhinvali to organize a victory parade there. The details have been found out recently, when those who participated in it, but kept silent, began to talk.
- Thus, do you think that the main reason for the war was Saakashvili’s adventurism?
- No doubt! We can speak about “objective contradictions between Russia and Georgia,” the contradictions wouldn’t appear, at least they wouldn’t lead to a war, but for Saakashvili’s adventurism and his mad behavior.
The start was positive: in February 2004 he met Vladimir Putin in Moscow. Diplomats told me that everything was great. However, despite achieved agreements, Saakashvili who got Adzharia believed that he was almighty.
In fact true national interests of Russia and Georgia coincide completely. American partners always told Saakashvili: “Please find a common language with Russia; you cannot solve your problems without it.” Today the Secretary General of NATO says it. The West has a clear principle – a state which confronts Russia cannot be a partner of the West.
- The West found interesting the book by Ronald Asmus “A Little War that Shook the World.” Would you like to argue Asmus?
- On the one hand, the book by late Asmus is very informative; it was useful for me, when I worked on my monograph. But speaking about Saakashvili and his team, preparing the attack on Tskhinvali, Asmus avoid adequate estimations. Unfortunately, he didn’t say that it was madness. He presented the facts in the way that Saakashvili strived for democracy, European integration, NATO, and Putin’s Russia punished him for this. But there would be no war, if Saakashvili did everything right. It wasn’t necessary to be an experienced and wise politician, he should only listen to numerous warnings. Twice in a day a regular bus passed from Tbilisi to Tskhinvali before the war. In the Gelsk region of Abkhazia the Georgian language was common speaking. We could develop this steadily. But he relied on blitzkrieg.
