Elshan Mammadov: "I have great respect for official mainstream theater, but independent theater is developing parallel to it"Interview by Oleg Kusov. Exclusively for "Vestnik Kavkaza"- Elshan, I will quickly present your biography to our audience, and please correct me if I make any mistakes.Elshan Mammadov was born in Baku, after graduation he went to Moscow, graduated from GITIS, the Theater Faculty. He has a PhD in Art History. In 1993 he founded a production company entitled the Independent Theater Project, and in 2005 he opened an authors' agency representing the best French playwrights in Russia, affiliated with the world's largest authors' agencies. At the Research Institute of Art Criticism he has defended his thesis entitled "Theaters of small forms in the Czech Republic in the 1960s and 1970s." The authors' agency "Independent Theatre Project" is 10 years old. There are 25 authors and 121 plays in the catalogue of the project. In one interview you've said: "I am proud of the fact that I have not spent a single day in a public theater and do not know what state funding means. Moreover, our theater is regarded as a theater with a full repertory." I have a feeling, judging by the dates, that you are one of the first supporters of a contract-based, private theater in Russia. This is not a compliment, this is a fact. It is the reality. Is it in fact true?- If the authors' agency this year is celebrating its 10th anniversary, the production company this year turns 21 years. I cannot say that we were the first, it would be better to say that as soon as the law eliminating the state monopoly on theater was adopted, the Independent Theater Project was one of the first private production companies.- I've read in your interviews that you got your first production experience while still being a student. Why did you find it interesting?- Theater studies as a discipline is wonderful. I was taught by excellent specialists in drama who have devoted their entire lives to it, but I always knew that it was not my way. To sit and do theater studies in a research library was like death to me. Imagine a geologist who has never been on a geological expedition and who is writing a research work. I really wanted to deal with live theater and it was a very conscious feeling. At the same time, I was sincerely very interested in studying the history of theater, the theory of theater. I specialized in Eastern European theater, in Czech theater to be precise and defended a dissertation on the Czech avante-garde under the supervision of L. Solntseva. But the theater to me is primarily a living organism, an everyday "wonder of a spectacle". And I am glad I went behind the scenes, I am happy with my choice, because with time the profession of a theater specialist has become depreciated unfortunately. Earlier we used to feel like "white crows" and used to say to philology students: "If I need to understand what War and Peace is, I will not read your articles, I'll just read the novel by Tolstoy. But in 20 years you'll be able to learn about the performance by Anatoly Efros only from my article." The situation has changed drastically. Now there is the internet, video. And if I want to leave my opinion about a certain performance I do it with the help of a critic-mediator.- You do not read Russian critics, and it is understandable. But judging from the repertory of your theater you also don't read Russian playwrights. Are they all gone?- Give me a play by a contemporary Russian playwright which can gather an audience of a thousand people and I will start rehearsing tomorrow. I can allow experiments in a large theater. I'd like to help young talanted playwrights to express themselves, but in general these are experiments for cellars with an audience of a hundred, and not for a hall. Therefore we choose European authors, especially the French.- It is clear that an independent theater cannot allow itself to initiate risky experiments, you do not have your own space, you do not have any government subsidies.- Any independence costs something. There is nothing bad in this. Almost all theaters in the West are private and it exists just like we do. Yes, it is hard, there are many problems, but Broadway, the West End, the Paris theaters along the boulevards somehow do exist. Experiments exist on grants. Everyone knows their own place, people respect each other and co-exist. But in order to cast Al Pacino in Othello on Broadway, an American producer does not ask the Ministry of Culture for financing, as any of our theaters with fixed repertory does, launching theater plays with a grant. A Broadway theater asks a bank for a loan.Their audience is well-mannered and their manners are different. People are very different and there is a show for each audience. An intellectual play can take place in Paris and the theater will be bursting. In Russia this play could only take place in a chamber setting. Every evening Fanny Ardant starred in a difficult play by Marguerite Duras in a fully-packed major Parisian theater de la Madeleine. In Russia this play gathered only one hall in the House of Music.You think there are no low-quality plays in New York or Paris? Of course there are, and quite a lot of them. I often watch Paris premieres. There are theaters and producers that I always go to and there are theaters where I'll never go. Our situation is very difficult. Our trust in state theaters is much higher, even if the performances are terrible. Therefore, it is harder for a private theater to make its way. If you've noticed I am not using the word "off-repertory performance", because today it has become synonymous with hackwork. I also watch performances of my colleagues. I see what is going on and what type of surrogate is being presented as theater. At first I voiced my concerns but then I realized: perhaps, we simply need to go through it. Perhaps, that is why private theaters are not taken seriously on the state level. Although there is enough hackwork in state theaters as well, it is just that every miller draws water to his own mill.- In one of the performances you have just talked about, in Moscow, I saw an actress reading from a piece of paper.- Such an approach discredits what we are doing. I hate the familiar saying "the audience is stupid". For me the most important thing is to offer my creative team a high quality idea and start rehearsing. I always gather actors before starting working on something and tell them: "Guys, if you cannot find time for rehearsals, you're in the wrong place. I am capable of many things, but I cannot produce a theater piece in one week. Therefore, please, decide for yourselves what is more important to you: quick money in cinema production or a strategic foundation in a theater. Strategic, because our performances go on for years. Find some time, play a part in a performance which will remain in your repertory for many years, and then star in movies as long as you want. Especially given that I am not offering you the worst roles." Creating a situation where a performance is fully produced is also my task. Yes, not in a public theater, yes, without a building, but we try to create conditions for actors to make them feel secure, to understand that they are not alone, to realize that it is not so that they could just travel around cities and villages but for creative purposes. As a result of this, a theater is emerging that we are talking about, a theater, which is developing in a parallel way, I hope, independently.- I once saw one of your plays, "Boeing-Boeing." It is a comedy, it is not just some entertainment.- "Boeing-Boeing" is entertainment, but with higher standards. After all, theater is primarily entertainment and then comes the rest. If I manage to entertain the audience in a good way, I am proud of myself. One can entertain in different ways as well. "Boeing-Boeing" is a pure comedy, but it is special at least because it is in the Guinness Records Book as the French play which is staged outside of France most often. A situation comedy is the most difficult genre. It is very difficult for actors to play in a comedy-puff. It is especially difficult for our actors due to our psychological school. We have invested a lot of energy in order to "grab" this genre, and frankly speaking, we did not succeed immediately. But it seems that in the end we managed it, because next season it will be 10 years old and it has great success.- With the help of comedy you have talked about serious things. This is very important. Plus the great acting. I think you were very right with everyone, it seems to me, on the stage.- In this stage play there is excellent acting. "Splashes of champagne" as one famous actress said after seeing it. Georgy Dronov has a starring role. Together with Petr Krasilov they make a wonderful acting duo. And the women! We have such great actresses! If you knew how hard it was to find actresses who were different, interesting and funny. After all, they play stewardesses of different nationalities. There are many talented beauties who can play Katherina in The Storm, but with Columbine we could have problems. I am very proud that we have managed to find Elena Morozova, Yekaterina Klimova and Elena Biryukova - brilliant actresses. And I am proud that there is a certain style on stage which has been in fashion for the past ten years. Artist Andrei Klimov has reconstructed in detail the atmosphere of the 1960s. Christian Dior, Yves Saint Laurent...- And you were not afraid to invite charming Kostya Voronin for his role, who appeared to be a unique, deep actor.- Only later he became Kostya Voronin, at the time he was just Georgy Dronov, a young and talented actor of the Mali Theater...- I think that an absolutely great guess...- When we started rehearsing "Boeing-Boeing", Yegor (Georgy Dronovo - Ed.) was finishing filming with Lena Biryukova in the sitcom "Sasha + Masha." The first episodes of the TV series "Poor Nastya" starring Katya Klimova and Petr Krasilov were being broadcast. And it turned out that our very funny and entertaining stage play with young and talented actors very quickly became full of stars. This is also a subject of my pride, because "guessing" actors is also part of my profession.- Elshan, Vestnik Kavkaza cannot overlook the fact that you a person of Caucasian nationality. You are a Bakuvian. You left Baku when you were 17 years old. It has been a long time. In general, what for you is your homeland?- First of all, people. Of course I have many relatives, friends and acquaintances there. And, of course, culture. Azerbaijan has a rich national culture. There is great attention paid to the development and promotion of national culture in this country now, and I am very happy about it. It is great that Azerbaijan took part in the construction of the Islamic pavilion at the Louvre. I was overwhelmed with emotions when at the entrance to this fantastically beautiful pavilion I read about the participation of Azerbaijan in its construction. And what a grand project - the Heydar Aliyev Cultural Center. The building itself would surprise even the outstanding architect Zaha Hadid. And it has a wonderful museum dedicated to Aliyev, with a very well thought through exhibition, a great concert hall, a great exhibition hall.But surely I am more concerned about the theater. In 2009, the president of Azerbaijan signed a decree on the development of the national theater. The decree came out, but there have been no visible changes. Although I know that the National Drama Theater seeks to evolve. I do not understand what this stagnation is related to. I assume that in Azerbaijan today there is a lack of professionals in the sphere of the Drama Theater. There is a need for some kind of explosion, similar to the one which was orchestrated by Valery Fokin. When he became the artistic director of the Aleksandrinsky Theater, he invited a Polish avant-garde director, Christian Lupa, to stage The Seagull and he created a very modern performance. Fokin was not afraid of such a revolutionary move, despite the fact that The Seagull was staged for the first time at the Alexandrinsky Theater, which meant a scrupulous, "under the microscope" critical approach. Recently, something similar was attempted at the Baku Russian Drama Theater. Lithuanian director Jonas Vaitkus staged The Seven Beauties by Nizami in this theater. But it is more of an accident rather than a repertory policy. I search deeply for a new, modern face of the Azerbaijani National Theater. And we can do it not only with the help of the national drama theater.- What do you mean?- Let me explain. For example, one of the major writers and playwrights in France today, Eric-Emmanuel Schmitt, has four novels about world religions, one of which is called "Ibrahim and the Flowers of the Koran." It is about the Muslim religion, about Sufism. Several years ago, the French made a very good movie based on this story with Omar Sharif playing the main role. There are successful theatrical adaptations. And where, if not in Baku, at the crossroads of the East and the West, on the Silk Road, should such story be staged? Or let us, for example, take the stunning novel A Whole Life Ahead by the outstanding French writer Emile Ajar, for which he was awarded the Prix Goncourt. The story at the heart of the novel is about a Jewish woman raising an Arab boy. Where, if not in Baku, in the deepest international traditions, should a play based on this novel be staged? When I come to Baku and start ranting and fantasizing, my friends often stop me. They say that it is easy for me to gush ideas, because I look at things from the Moscow perspective, as an outsider. They tell me: imagine us in this situation. And I shut up because I understand that in some ways they're probably right.- You like to experiment. This is your lifestyle. Probably Azerbaijan lacks experimentation…- I don't know, I cannot judge. I started talking about international traditions in Azerbaijan and these were not just words. In Russia there are few who remember and know that the first Russian Orthodox church in Baku was built from Muslim donations. Baku is really a junction of cultures and religions. In the center of Baku, in one triangle there is a church, a synagogue and a mosque. There was time when sects persecuted in Russia were exiled to the borders of the Russian Empire (and Azerbaijan was a border area) including Molokans, Baptists, Adventists, and they were treated only in a good way by the locals. How did so many Armenians end up in Nagorno-Karabakh? The Russian Empire received Armenian refugees from Turkey and Iran and settled them in Karabakh. I grew up in Baku, and there were representatives of different nationalities in my class. I left for Moscow before the conflict with Armenia started, that is, I lived in Baku only in Soviet times. I swear to you, it had never occurred to me to rank people according to their nationality! Russian, Jewish, Armenian, - there is no difference! Most of my teachers at the 174th school were Jews. And it was a very respected, strong, well-known school in Baku, to which not everyone was admitted. And it has always been like that in this city.That is why it makes me sad to realize that some of my compatriots who live in Moscow don't want to integrate into Russian society, to get acquinted with Russian culture. They only dine in Azerbaijani restaurants, which are now very fashionable, only listen to Azerbaijani music, they continue their habitual lifestyle. I have nothing against preserving one's national identity, but when I see a car in which a driver is listening to very loud ethnic music, I feel ashamed. This problem is typical not only to Azerbaijanis in Moscow, but also to Arabs in France. I believe that a person who arrives in another country should learn how to behave in accordance with local traditions. When in Rome, do as the Romans, as they say. If one lives in a country, one should integrate into local society. I believe this is why many Russians have prejudices against Caucasians. At the same time, I am not trying to defend this prejudiced approach. Sometimes Russians may say very offensive things. However, I have never been a victim of such an attitude, even though I have been living in Moscow for 30 years. There are many Azerbaiajni intellectuals living in Moscow, scientists, doctors, I believe they would agree.- Azerbaijani has always been friendly to the Russian laguage and culture. They have recently opened the Slavic University…- That is true. Do you know that in Baku, in Azerbaijan, none of the Russian schools were closed after the dissolution of the Soviet Union? It is the only country. When my friends are going to Baku, I always tell them - don't hesitate to speak Russian, there is no person in Baku who would not speak this language. By the way I was very surprised when I learnt that many Azerbaijanis send their children to study in Turkey. I understand that Turks are our brothers, but I believe that the Russian educational system is closer to our own. Especially in the sphere of arts. For instance the Azerbaijani theatre traditions have been formed under the great influence of Russian drama. So why do they travel to Ankara and not to Moscow or St. Petersburg?- As for your favourite countries, I mean Azerbaijan and France, how are the cultural ties between them?I am not an expert on the topic, as I can only discuss it from Moscow. But the fact that Hollande comes and opens a French college is a great event. I should say that not only in Russia, but also in the East in general, there was a love for France. The Caucasus loved everything French. Dumas travelled all over it; Turkey was French-speaking; people went nuts about French culture. Of course, this should be developed. I know that in Baku, along with Russian, children prefer to learn French rather than English in Azerbaijani national schools.As a person who is crazy about French culture, I find it brilliant. I think it's just great. Of course France is facing many problem, but we should all remember that this country gave so much to the world. So many things came from France. I believe the Americans only modified and improved the French lifestyle rather than established a new one. I guess Russia should also learn from France, from its experience.By the way, Russia's new cultural policy has stirred public attention. A lot of things are being done in the wrong way. Of course culture is being politicized and the opposition is afraid that these tendecies will lead to dramatic consequences. However it was absolutely the same in France. The were also fighting against America's cultural expansion. For example, they have very strict rules, which regulate the percentage of English-language and French-language films.The same goes for music, radio and the Internet. They are fighting for their national culture.- I would like to say that being a Russian person means to belong to the Russian culture rather than to a particular ethnic group. For instance, when I lived in Europe I felt myself Russian, even though I am Ossetian and so did other people who came from various parts of Russia.Elshan, how can theatre resist the internet, gadgets? I don’t mention TV. I ask you because you have positive experience. You have gathered full halls, I mean when I visited your performance. There were various people: youth, the older generation, cultured people, laborers. There was variety in the audience. How do you compete?- Competition for an audience is a separate topic. There is a wonderful statement by an English theatre critic, I like to cite him. He says that an audience is divided into three categories: the first category includes people who will buy a ticket anyway, as they need this, they have a demand; the second category includes people who will never buy a ticket, they don’t need this, and there are many such people; and the third category includes people who doubt. The third category is our theatre audience. I often have disputes with my colleagues who say: “We have a full hall, and you criticize us!” I tell them: “What is your audience?” I visit such performances, I call them “a star on the background of a curtain.” And I see that half of the audience are people who have come to the theatre for the first time. They are not theater-goers. We try to form our audience from people who are interested in this or who doubt. We are almost the only theatre which has its own audience. As for our spectators, we collect them and bring them – it is a big work. As for popularity, I cannot compete with the Moscow Academic Art Theater physically, as it has a long history… Speaking about general competition, it is not balanced, as I cannot compete with “Satirikon.” We work in a different field, we work in the image of performances, actors, we try to promote our brand of “Independent Theater Project.” However, we manage to do this. Every year the competition for audiences becomes tougher. As for the internet, you know when the Lumiere Brothers shot their first movie, people began to speak about the death of theatre. Later, TV was invented. But theatre is not dead, as it cannot be replaced. The other question is that we should offer the audience something that can compete with the internet and TV. Speaking about the theatre audience, the audience watches American and British TV-shows which are high-quality ones, with brilliant acting. We have to offer something competitive so people come to the theatre.- You were born into a family of musicians, but you don’t play any musical instruments. At the same time, you dare make a unique project in your private theatre. I mean Tapeur-Show. Tell us about it.- I am glad to tell you. It is an absolutely different genre, a different performance. We appreciate it so much, as it is absolutely different. Even though I can speak about each play for hours, this is absolutely different. Casting, rehearsals, the release system – it was very interesting, but it was an absolutely unknown thing for us. We are used to staging drama performances, but this is a different specificity. It includes both musicians and theatre. I don’t hide that I saw a very popular group in France, a quartet of musicians, who are very popular, and everybody knows them. They are not young, they started working in the 1980s. But they are outstanding musicians. It is theatrical music. I have always dreamed about watching the play, and my friends wanted me to watch it, but I didn’t want to spend a night in Paris for a musical show. But one day I did it, and I was shocked. This is not exactly theatre, but it could be performed as theatre. At the same time, when you have an idea, it doesn’t mean you will start to implement it immediately. The project, the idea was kept in my mind. At some point it turned into a certain idea which was suggested to a certain person. I mean that I needed a director who would do that. And I found the person, Igor Orshulyak. You know, it's one thing when you try to persuade a person that it should be done, but it's another thing when you start and he continues. He understood what I wanted immediately. We went to France and watched the performance and began to prepare for casting. Our casting was rather long, it took a lot of time, several months. As a result, we chose four musicians. First of all they had to be not simple musicians, but outstanding musicians, but moreover, they had to supplement each other, be individual, they had to have different characters. They had to be different, but they had to combine. As a result of the puzzle, we chose four musicians who agreed to participate in the experiment. They didn’t realize what they would have to do. I don’t think they realize it even now. We told them that it would be difficult, but they have nothing to compare with. I mean, such a genre as “musicians make jokes” is one thing, but we created an absolutely different theatre where a synthetic artist exists. There are many synthetic actors, but our type is absolutely new. It resembles Cirque du Soleil, but in theatre, when people play musical instruments, standing on their heads, dancing, rolling, and so on. At the same time, it is a solid performance with development.- There are many producers who have worked in the sphere of TV and theatre for many years. But only now do I understand what a producer is. I mean a desire to experiment.- Not everybody wants to experiment. As for me, this is true, as it is not interesting without experimenting. Of course there are people who deal with commercial projects of a high class, and I deal with them as well. But each time we try to step beyond common limits, to make it different, as we need something new. This concerns any of our projects. Recently we have produced the play “A Love Story”, it is a French play by a very good screenwriter. It is also beyond the limits, as it is a different view on “A Love Story.” You are absolutely right to feel this; I’m glad to hear it. In our country “a producer” means a person who gets money. I always say: “There are too many projects in which huge amounts of money are invested, but there is no result.” A producer should feel where to invest, what is interesting, what topic is interesting. It is difficult, as it is not selling mineral water. You can calculate success only to some limit.- It means intuition is necessary.- Intuition is very important. I think the best example of precise and detailed calculation of success is the Mamma Mia musical. I adore the woman, the producer of the musical. I know the story and how long it took to convince ABBA. She knew exactly that the musical which consists of hits and with the huge popularity of ABBA would be successful without any doubts. But this is a rare story. I have such stories as well. For example, “Ladies’ Night” is a performance which is 12 years old. I saw the idea in France, and I knew the performance was destined to be successful. But even I couldn’t predict the scale of the success. There are brilliant actors, the director, choreographers, and so on. It was a breakthrough. It was one of those rare stories when you woke up and all Moscow was talking about it. But in most cases you rely on intuition, but you cannot predict an outcome before the audience comes, before you hear their reaction. You could have a huge theatre experience but you would never predict the audience’s reaction. That’s the moment when the miracle of a performance is born, when you feel contact and your expectations come true. At rehearsals you can predict some major things, but details are always different.- And tell us about your plans.- As for Tapeur-Show, we create new scenes. In late May and early July we will participate in several arrangements of all-national importance. We will take part in awards ceremonies. At the moment we are preparing for our performances on June 24-25 in the Theatre for Young Audiences. We will stage the last performances of Tapeur-Show in the season. We have recently produced “A Love Story,” as I have said. And we are preparing a new young version of “Ladies’ Night.”
Interview by Oleg Kusov. Exclusively for "Vestnik Kavkaza"
- Elshan, I will quickly present your biography to our audience, and please correct me if I make any mistakes.Elshan Mammadov was born in Baku, after graduation he went to Moscow, graduated from GITIS, the Theater Faculty. He has a PhD in Art History. In 1993 he founded a production company entitled the Independent Theater Project, and in 2005 he opened an authors' agency representing the best French playwrights in Russia, affiliated with the world's largest authors' agencies. At the Research Institute of Art Criticism he has defended his thesis entitled "Theaters of small forms in the Czech Republic in the 1960s and 1970s." The authors' agency "Independent Theatre Project" is 10 years old. There are 25 authors and 121 plays in the catalogue of the project. In one interview you've said: "I am proud of the fact that I have not spent a single day in a public theater and do not know what state funding means. Moreover, our theater is regarded as a theater with a full repertory." I have a feeling, judging by the dates, that you are one of the first supporters of a contract-based, private theater in Russia. This is not a compliment, this is a fact. It is the reality. Is it in fact true?
- If the authors' agency this year is celebrating its 10th anniversary, the production company this year turns 21 years. I cannot say that we were the first, it would be better to say that as soon as the law eliminating the state monopoly on theater was adopted, the Independent Theater Project was one of the first private production companies.
- I've read in your interviews that you got your first production experience while still a student. Why did you find it interesting?
- Theater studies as a discipline is wonderful. I was taught by excellent specialists in drama who devoted their entire lives to it, but I always knew that it was not my way. To sit and do theater studies in a research library was like death to me. Imagine a geologist who has never been on a geological expedition and who is writing a research work. I really wanted to deal with live theater and it was a very conscious feeling. At the same time, I was sincerely very interested in studying the history of theater, the theory of theater. I specialized in Eastern European theater, in Czech theater to be precise and defended a dissertation on the Czech avante-garde under the supervision of L. Solntseva. But the theater to me is primarily a living organism, an everyday "wonder of a spectacle". And I am glad I went behind the scenes, I am happy with my choice, because with time the profession of a theater specialist has become depreciated unfortunately. Earlier we used to feel like "white crows" and used to say to philology students: "If I need to understand what War and Peace is, I will not read your articles, I'll just read the novel by Tolstoy. But in 20 years you'll be able to learn about the performance by Anatoly Efros only from my article." The situation has changed drastically. Now there is the internet, video. And if I want to leave my opinion about a certain performance I do it with the help of a critic-mediator.
- You do not read Russian critics, and it is understandable. But judging from the repertory of your theater you also don't read Russian playwrights. Are they all gone?
- Give me a play by a contemporary Russian playwright which can gather an audience of a thousand people and I will start rehearsing tomorrow. I can allow experiments in a large theater. I'd like to help young talanted playwrights to express themselves, but in general these are experiments for cellars with an audience of a hundred, and not for a hall. Therefore we choose European authors, especially the French.
- It is clear that an independent theater cannot allow itself to initiate risky experiments, you do not have your own space, you do not have any government subsidies.
- Any independence costs something. There is nothing bad in this. Almost all theaters in the West are private and it exists just like we do. Yes, it is hard, there are many problems, but Broadway, the West End, the Paris theaters along the boulevards somehow do exist. Experiments exist on grants. Everyone knows their own place, people respect each other and co-exist. But in order to cast Al Pacino in Othello on Broadway, an American producer does not ask the Ministry of Culture for financing, as any of our theaters with fixed repertory does, launching theater plays with a grant. A Broadway theater asks a bank for a loan.
Their audience is well-mannered and their manners are different. People are very different and there is a show for each audience. An intellectual play can take place in Paris and the theater will be bursting. In Russia this play could only take place in a chamber setting. Every evening Fanny Ardant starred in a difficult play by Marguerite Duras in a fully-packed major Parisian theater de la Madeleine. In Russia this play gathered only one hall in the House of Music.
You think there are no low-quality plays in New York or Paris? Of course there are, and quite a lot of them. I often watch Paris premieres. There are theaters and producers that I always go to and there are theaters where I'll never go. Our situation is very difficult. Our trust in state theaters is much higher, even if the performances are terrible. Therefore, it is harder for a private theater to make its way. If you've noticed I am not using the word "off-repertory performance", because today it has become synonymous with hackwork. I also watch performances of my colleagues. I see what is going on and what type of surrogate is being presented as theater. At first I voiced my concerns but then I realized: perhaps, we simply need to go through it. Perhaps, that is why private theaters are not taken seriously on the state level. Although there is enough hackwork in state theaters as well, it is just that every miller draws water to his own mill.
- In one of the performances you have just talked about, in Moscow, I saw an actress reading from a piece of paper.
- Such an approach discredits what we are doing. I hate the familiar saying "the audience is stupid". For me the most important thing is to offer my creative team a high quality idea and start rehearsing. I always gather actors before starting working on something and tell them: "Guys, if you cannot find time for rehearsals, you're in the wrong place. I am capable of many things, but I cannot produce a theater piece in one week. Therefore, please, decide for yourselves what is more important to you: quick money in cinema production or a strategic foundation in a theater. Strategic, because our performances go on for years. Find some time, play a part in a performance which will remain in your repertory for many years, and then star in movies as long as you want. Especially given that I am not offering you the worst roles."
Creating a situation where a performance is fully produced is also my task. Yes, not in a public theater, yes, without a building, but we try to create conditions for actors to make them feel secure, to understand that they are not alone, to realize that it is not so that they could just travel around cities and villages but for creative purposes. As a result of this, a theater is emerging that we are talking about, a theater, which is developing in a parallel way, I hope, independently.
- I once saw one of your plays, "Boeing-Boeing." It is a comedy, it is not just some entertainment.
- "Boeing-Boeing" is entertainment, but with higher standards. After all, theater is primarily entertainment and then comes the rest. If I manage to entertain the audience in a good way, I am proud of myself. One can entertain in different ways as well. "Boeing-Boeing" is a pure comedy, but it is special at least because it is in the Guinness Records Book as the French play which is staged outside of France most often. A situation comedy is the most difficult genre. It is very difficult for actors to play in a comedy-puff. It is especially difficult for our actors due to our psychological school. We have invested a lot of energy in order to "grab" this genre, and frankly speaking, we did not succeed immediately. But it seems that in the end we managed it, because next season it will be 10 years old and it has great success.
- With the help of comedy you have talked about serious things. This is very important. Plus the great acting. I think you were very right with everyone, it seems to me, on the stage.
- In this stage play there is excellent acting. "Splashes of champagne" as one famous actress said after seeing it. Georgy Dronov has a starring role. Together with Petr Krasilov they make a wonderful acting duo. And the women! We have such great actresses! If you knew how hard it was to find actresses who were different, interesting and funny. After all, they play stewardesses of different nationalities. There are many talented beauties who can play Katherina in The Storm, but with Columbine we could have problems. I am very proud that we have managed to find Elena Morozova, Yekaterina Klimova and Elena Biryukova - brilliant actresses. And I am proud that there is a certain style on stage which has been in fashion for the past ten years. Artist Andrei Klimov has reconstructed in detail the atmosphere of the 1960s. Christian Dior, Yves Saint Laurent...
- And you were not afraid to invite charming Kostya Voronin for his role, who appeared to be a unique, deep actor.
- Only later he became Kostya Voronin, at the time he was just Georgy Dronov, a young and talented actor of the Mali Theater...
- I think that an absolutely great guess...
- When we started rehearsing "Boeing-Boeing", Yegor (Georgy Dronovo - Ed.) was finishing filming with Lena Biryukova in the sitcom "Sasha + Masha." The first episodes of the TV series "Poor Nastya" starring Katya Klimova and Petr Krasilov were being broadcast. And it turned out that our very funny and entertaining stage play with young and talented actors very quickly became full of stars. This is also a subject of my pride, because "guessing" actors is also part of my profession.
- Elshan, Vestnik Kavkaza cannot overlook the fact that you a person of Caucasian nationality. You are a Bakuvian. You left Baku when you were 17 years old. It has been a long time. In general, what for you is your homeland?
- First of all, people. Of course I have many relatives, friends and acquaintances there. And, of course, culture. Azerbaijan has a rich national culture. There is great attention paid to the development and promotion of national culture in this country now, and I am very happy about it. It is great that Azerbaijan took part in the construction of the Islamic pavilion at the Louvre. I was overwhelmed with emotions when at the entrance to this fantastically beautiful pavilion I read about the participation of Azerbaijan in its construction. And what a grand project - the Heydar Aliyev Cultural Center. The building itself would surprise even the outstanding architect Zaha Hadid. And it has a wonderful museum dedicated to Aliyev, with a very well thought through exhibition, a great concert hall, a great exhibition hall.
But surely I am more concerned about the theater. In 2009, the president of Azerbaijan signed a decree on the development of the national theater. The decree came out, but there have been no visible changes. Although I know that the National Drama Theater seeks to evolve. I do not understand what this stagnation is related to. I assume that in Azerbaijan today there is a lack of professionals in the sphere of the Drama Theater. There is a need for some kind of explosion, similar to the one which was orchestrated by Valery Fokin. When he became the artistic director of the Aleksandrinsky Theater, he invited a Polish avant-garde director, Christian Lupa, to stage The Seagull and he created a very modern performance. Fokin was not afraid of such a revolutionary move, despite the fact that The Seagull was staged for the first time at the Alexandrinsky Theater, which meant a scrupulous, "under the microscope" critical approach. Recently, something similar was attempted at the Baku Russian Drama Theater. Lithuanian director Jonas Vaitkus staged The Seven Beauties by Nizami in this theater. But it is more of an accident rather than a repertory policy. I search deeply for a new, modern face of the Azerbaijani National Theater. And we can do it not only with the help of the national drama theater.
- What do you mean?
- Let me explain. For example, one of the major writers and playwrights in France today, Eric-Emmanuel Schmitt, has four novels about world religions, one of which is called "Ibrahim and the Flowers of the Koran." It is about the Muslim religion, about Sufism. Several years ago, the French made a very good movie based on this story with Omar Sharif playing the main role. There are successful theatrical adaptations. And where, if not in Baku, at the crossroads of the East and the West, on the Silk Road, should such story be staged? Or let us, for example, take the stunning novel A Whole Life Ahead by the outstanding French writer Emile Ajar, for which he was awarded the Prix Goncourt. The story at the heart of the novel is about a Jewish woman raising an Arab boy. Where, if not in Baku, in the deepest international traditions, should a play based on this novel be staged? When I come to Baku and start ranting and fantasizing, my friends often stop me. They say that it is easy for me to gush ideas, because I look at things from the Moscow perspective, as an outsider. They tell me: imagine us in this situation. And I shut up because I understand that in some ways they're probably right.
- You like to experiment. This is your lifestyle. Probably Azerbaijan lacks experimentation…
- I don't know, I cannot judge. I started talking about international traditions in Azerbaijan and these were not just words. In Russia there are few who remember and know that the first Russian Orthodox church in Baku was built from Muslim donations. Baku is really a junction of cultures and religions. In the center of Baku, in one triangle there is a church, a synagogue and a mosque. There was time when sects persecuted in Russia were exiled to the borders of the Russian Empire (and Azerbaijan was a border area) including Molokans, Baptists, Adventists, and they were treated only in a good way by the locals. How did so many Armenians end up in Nagorno-Karabakh? The Russian Empire received Armenian refugees from Turkey and Iran and settled them in Karabakh. I grew up in Baku, and there were representatives of different nationalities in my class. I left for Moscow before the conflict with Armenia started, that is, I lived in Baku only in Soviet times. I swear to you, it had never occurred to me to rank people according to their nationality! Russian, Jewish, Armenian, - there is no difference! Most of my teachers at the 174th school were Jews. And it was a very respected, strong, well-known school in Baku, to which not everyone was admitted. And it has always been like that in this city.
That is why it makes me sad to realize that some of my compatriots who live in Moscow don't want to integrate into Russian society, to get acquinted with Russian culture. They only dine in Azerbaijani restaurants, which are now very fashionable, only listen to Azerbaijani music, they continue their habitual lifestyle. I have nothing against preserving one's national identity, but when I see a car in which a driver is listening to very loud ethnic music, I feel ashamed. This problem is typical not only to Azerbaijanis in Moscow, but also to Arabs in France. I believe that a person who arrives in another country should learn how to behave in accordance with local traditions. When in Rome, do as the Romans, as they say. If one lives in a country, one should integrate into local society. I believe this is why many Russians have prejudices against Caucasians. At the same time, I am not trying to defend this prejudiced approach. Sometimes Russians may say very offensive things. However, I have never been a victim of such an attitude, even though I have been living in Moscow for 30 years. There are many Azerbaiajni intellectuals living in Moscow, scientists, doctors, I believe they would agree.
- Azerbaijani has always been friendly to the Russian laguage and culture. They have recently opened the Slavic University…
- That is true. Do you know that in Baku, in Azerbaijan, none of the Russian schools were closed after the dissolution of the Soviet Union? It is the only country. When my friends are going to Baku, I always tell them - don't hesitate to speak Russian, there is no person in Baku who would not speak this language. By the way I was very surprised when I learnt that many Azerbaijanis send their children to study in Turkey. I understand that Turks are our brothers, but I believe that the Russian educational system is closer to our own. Especially in the sphere of arts. For instance the Azerbaijani theatre traditions have been formed under the great influence of Russian drama. So why do they travel to Ankara and not to Moscow or St. Petersburg?
- As for your favourite countries, I mean Azerbaijan and France, how are the cultural ties between them?
- I am not an expert on the topic, as I can only discuss it from Moscow. But the fact that Hollande comes and opens a French college is a great event. I should say that not only in Russia, but also in the East in general, there was a love for France. The Caucasus loved everything French. Dumas travelled all over it; Turkey was French-speaking; people went nuts about French culture. Of course, this should be developed. I know that in Baku, along with Russian, children prefer to learn French rather than English in Azerbaijani national schools.
As a person who is crazy about French culture, I find it brilliant. I think it's just great. Of course France is facing many problem, but we should all remember that this country gave so much to the world. So many things came from France. I believe the Americans only modified and improved the French lifestyle rather than established a new one. I guess Russia should also learn from France, from its experience.
By the way, Russia's new cultural policy has stirred public attention. A lot of things are being done in the wrong way. Of course culture is being politicized and the opposition is afraid that these tendecies will lead to dramatic consequences. However it was absolutely the same in France. The were also fighting against America's cultural expansion. For example, they have very strict rules, which regulate the percentage of English-language and French-language films.The same goes for music, radio and the Internet. They are fighting for their national culture.
- I would like to say that being a Russian person means to belong to the Russian culture rather than to a particular ethnic group. For instance, when I lived in Europe I felt myself Russian, even though I am Ossetian and so did other people who came from various parts of Russia.
Elshan, how can theatre resist the internet, gadgets? I don’t mention TV. I ask you because you have positive experience. You have gathered full halls, I mean when I visited your performance. There were various people: youth, the older generation, cultured people, laborers. There was variety in the audience. How do you compete?
- Competition for an audience is a separate topic. There is a wonderful statement by an English theatre critic, I like to cite him. He says that an audience is divided into three categories: the first category includes people who will buy a ticket anyway, as they need this, they have a demand; the second category includes people who will never buy a ticket, they don’t need this, and there are many such people; and the third category includes people who doubt. The third category is our theatre audience. I often have disputes with my colleagues who say: “We have a full hall, and you criticize us!” I tell them: “What is your audience?” I visit such performances, I call them “a star on the background of a curtain.” And I see that half of the audience are people who have come to the theatre for the first time. They are not theater-goers. We try to form our audience from people who are interested in this or who doubt. We are almost the only theatre which has its own audience. As for our spectators, we collect them and bring them – it is a big work. As for popularity, I cannot compete with the Moscow Academic Art Theater physically, as it has a long history… Speaking about general competition, it is not balanced, as I cannot compete with “Satirikon.” We work in a different field, we work in the image of performances, actors, we try to promote our brand of “Independent Theater Project.” However, we manage to do this. Every year the competition for audiences becomes tougher.
As for the internet, you know when the Lumiere Brothers shot their first movie, people began to speak about the death of theatre. Later, TV was invented. But theatre is not dead, as it cannot be replaced. The other question is that we should offer the audience something that can compete with the internet and TV. Speaking about the theatre audience, the audience watches American and British TV-shows which are high-quality ones, with brilliant acting. We have to offer something competitive so people come to the theatre.
- You were born into a family of musicians, but you don’t play any musical instruments. At the same time, you dare make a unique project in your private theatre. I mean Tapeur-Show. Tell us about it.
- I am glad to tell you. It is an absolutely different genre, a different performance. We appreciate it so much, as it is absolutely different. Even though I can speak about each play for hours, this is absolutely different.
Casting, rehearsals, the release system – it was very interesting, but it was an absolutely unknown thing for us. We are used to staging drama performances, but this is a different specificity. It includes both musicians and theatre. I don’t hide that I saw a very popular group in France, a quartet of musicians, who are very popular, and everybody knows them. They are not young, they started working in the 1980s. But they are outstanding musicians. It is theatrical music. I have always dreamed about watching the play, and my friends wanted me to watch it, but I didn’t want to spend a night in Paris for a musical show.
But one day I did it, and I was shocked. This is not exactly theatre, but it could be performed as theatre. At the same time, when you have an idea, it doesn’t mean you will start to implement it immediately. The project, the idea was kept in my mind. At some point it turned into a certain idea which was suggested to a certain person. I mean that I needed a director who would do that. And I found the person, Igor Orshulyak. You know, it's one thing when you try to persuade a person that it should be done, but it's another thing when you start and he continues. He understood what I wanted immediately. We went to France and watched the performance and began to prepare for casting. Our casting was rather long, it took a lot of time, several months. As a result, we chose four musicians. First of all they had to be not simple musicians, but outstanding musicians, but moreover, they had to supplement each other, be individual, they had to have different characters. They had to be different, but they had to combine.
As a result of the puzzle, we chose four musicians who agreed to participate in the experiment. They didn’t realize what they would have to do. I don’t think they realize it even now. We told them that it would be difficult, but they have nothing to compare with. I mean, such a genre as “musicians make jokes” is one thing, but we created an absolutely different theatre where a synthetic artist exists. There are many synthetic actors, but our type is absolutely new. It resembles Cirque du Soleil, but in theatre, when people play musical instruments, standing on their heads, dancing, rolling, and so on. At the same time, it is a solid performance with development.
- There are many producers who have worked in the sphere of TV and theatre for many years. But only now do I understand what a producer is. I mean a desire to experiment.
- Not everybody wants to experiment. As for me, this is true, as it is not interesting without experimenting. Of course there are people who deal with commercial projects of a high class, and I deal with them as well. But each time we try to step beyond common limits, to make it different, as we need something new. This concerns any of our projects. Recently we have produced the play “A Love Story”, it is a French play by a very good screenwriter. It is also beyond the limits, as it is a different view on “A Love Story.” You are absolutely right to feel this; I’m glad to hear it. In our country “a producer” means a person who gets money. I always say: “There are too many projects in which huge amounts of money are invested, but there is no result.” A producer should feel where to invest, what is interesting, what topic is interesting. It is difficult, as it is not selling mineral water. You can calculate success only to some limit.
- It means intuition is necessary.
- Intuition is very important. I think the best example of precise and detailed calculation of success is the Mamma Mia musical. I adore the woman, the producer of the musical. I know the story and how long it took to convince ABBA. She knew exactly that the musical which consists of hits and with the huge popularity of ABBA would be successful without any doubts. But this is a rare story.
I have such stories as well. For example, “Ladies’ Night” is a performance which is 12 years old. I saw the idea in France, and I knew the performance was destined to be successful. But even I couldn’t predict the scale of the success. There are brilliant actors, the director, choreographers, and so on. It was a breakthrough. It was one of those rare stories when you woke up and all Moscow was talking about it. But in most cases you rely on intuition, but you cannot predict an outcome before the audience comes, before you hear their reaction. You could have a huge theatre experience but you would never predict the audience’s reaction. That’s the moment when the miracle of a performance is born, when you feel contact and your expectations come true. At rehearsals you can predict some major things, but details are always different.
- And tell us about your plans.
- As for Tapeur-Show, we create new scenes. In late May and early July we will participate in several arrangements of all-national importance. We will take part in awards ceremonies. At the moment we are preparing for our performances on June 24-25 in the Theatre for Young Audiences. We will stage the last performances of Tapeur-Show in the season. We have recently produced “A Love Story,” as I have said. And we are preparing a new young version of “Ladies’ Night.”
