Interview by Vestnik Kavkaza Editor-in-Chief Maria Sidelnikova
The sixth King of Saudi Arabia, Abdullah bin Abdulaziz Al Saud, died last night at the age of 91. The role of King Abdullah in the Middle East can be called historic without exaggeration. He has done a lot for the North Caucasus too. The Chechen Republic is one of the most rapidly developing regions of Russia. Things were absolutely different 15 years ago. The situation started changing for the better when Akhmad-Hadji Kadyrov became the head of the region. One of the key moments in the move towards peace in Chechnya was Akhmad-Hadji’s visit to Saudi Arabia. At the time, in the early 2000s, Andrey Baklanov was the Russian ambassador to Saudi Arabia and one of the organizers of the visit. Today, Andrey Baklanov is a Russian scholar of Oriental studies, an expert of international relations. He has visited Vestnik Kavkaza and described the development of relations between Chechnya and Saudi Arabia.
- Andrey Glebovich Baklanov, tell us please, how it all happened, how did the idea appear?
- The idea appeared during the negotiations between the then Crown Prince Abdullah’s visit to Moscow in September 2003. Of course, before making the visit there were very long preparations and even, if we dig deeper, reorientation of our relations. The difference of approaches of the sides around the events in the Caucasus, particularly in Chechnya, was a constraining factor of the reorientation until a certain time. I arrived in Saudi Arabia just in 2000, when our relations were at the peak of differences in positions, and they had, I would say, unfriendly features. Clarifying details of the events (why they happened, what they were linked with, foreign influence, the nature of foreign influence, common provocative background associated with the events) to Foreign Minister Saud Faisal, the political authorities of the country, we managed to change the approach of the political authorities of the Saudis to the new Chechen authorities, the problem of Chechnya and the whole complex of our relations. And the visit happened. Akhmad-Hadji Kadyrov was a participant in the negotiations. The crown prince was watching him all the time, he was a very sensitive, attentive person, he perfectly knew people, he had enormous authority, and I figured that he made certain conclusions even by observing Kadyrov’s appearance. When the issue of establishing direct communication between representatives of the Caucasus region, Chechnya and the Saudi authorities was raised at the negotiations, he took it normally, though he did not give a clear affirmation, but he offered to consider it.
- Then Russian diplomacy joined?
- We continued work. Already in late 2003 I was at a meeting with the king and Abdullah, we established very good relations with them, an ambassador does not generally get any farther than a minister, very rarely to the crown prince, or king. But he had a reception, I used it and put the issue of Kadyrov’s visit on a practical level. We talked for 2.5 hours. As a result, the king agreed and said “fine, if we receive President Kadyrov, we will organize it at the top level, let him arrive as a guest, he and all his team.” He received them at the governmental mansion in Jeddah, in Riyadh.
- What was the decisive argument? What made the king change his decision?
- I told him how all the provocation around Chechnya was organized. I opened some cards. Now we even have Berezovsky shown on television, the facts were not that obvious at that time. I had the facts and showed all the provocative background, that the case had absolutely nothing to do with Islam, a wedge had been deliberately driven between the two nations. He understood the arguments. Maybe he was suspecting that things were not that simple. Because the Saudis themselves monitor development of the situation in the region, they have great experience in preventing unfavourable developments, infringement of their territorial integrity, the eastern province. You know, there are processes inside and especially outside the country. So I took the arguments and agreed to organize the visit. Then we met with Kadyrov again and agreed to a scheme where he would head a bigger delegation, where representatives of other Caucasian peoples would be included. He brought religious figures from Chechnya and the Caucasus. The Saudis regarded it as a delegation of representatives of Caucasus regions headed by someone they considered the chief, President Kadyrov that is. When President Kadyrov was at a meeting with the crown prince in Moscow, we were sitting nearby, he said: “Look, please, have I signed the book properly?” He signed in Arabic. I took a look and figured that he just wanted to tell me how well he knew the language and could write. There was nothing to check, it was written excellently, he just wanted to make sure, and I was sure that the origins of his knowledge, including Arabic, since he had a good religious education, were certainly from his father’s relatives. It was certainly all very important. When he arrived next time, his excellent skill played a very big role in terms of trust towards him, as I have mentioned. He was an amazing orator. He made speeches. And when the visit started, it started in Jeddah. At the very start of the visit, there was a meeting with the top intellectuals of Saudi Arabia at the place of the richest man, the billionaire Al-Hoji. His residence was in Jeddah. After the first round of negotiations at the Chamber of Commerce and Industry, we visited Al-Hoji. The atmosphere was very nice, friendly. In our delegation there were many locals, clerics, political and public figures. The conversation was surprisingly sincere. After hearing Kadyrov’s speech, it was clear that people certainly made a full change of their approach because it was certainly a result of reading western media to a great extent. Psychologically, it was a meeting with a large number of Saudis, sincere answers to any questions raised there, we were sitting at the table, walking with Hoji and other invitees. It was an opportunity to talk sincerely.
To be continued
Interview by Vestnik Kavkaza Editor-in-Chief Maria SidelnikovaThe sixth King of Saudi Arabia, Abdullah bin Abdulaziz Al Saud, died last night at the age of 91. The role of King Abdullah in the Middle East can be called historic without exaggeration. He has done a lot for the North Caucasus too. The Chechen Republic is one of the most rapidly developing regions of Russia. Things were absolutely different 15 years ago. The situation started changing for the better when Akhmad-Hadji Kadyrov became the head of the region. One of the key moments in the move towards peace in Chechnya was Akhmad-Hadji’s visit to Saudi Arabia. At the time, in the early 2000s, Andrey Baklanov was the Russian ambassador to Saudi Arabia and one of the organizers of the visit. Today, Andrey Baklanov is a Russian scholar of Oriental studies, an expert of international relations. He has visited Vestnik Kavkaza and described the development of relations between Chechnya and Saudi Arabia. - Andrey Glebovich Baklanov, tell us please, how it all happened, how did the idea appear?- The idea appeared during the negotiations between the then Crown Prince Abdullah’s visit to Moscow in September 2003. Of course, before making the visit there were very long preparations and even, if we dig deeper, reorientation of our relations. The difference of approaches of the sides around the events in the Caucasus, particularly in Chechnya, was a constraining factor of the reorientation until a certain time. I arrived in Saudi Arabia just in 2000, when our relations were at the peak of differences in positions, and they had, I would say, unfriendly features. Clarifying details of the events (why they happened, what they were linked with, foreign influence, the nature of foreign influence, common provocative background associated with the events) to Foreign Minister Saud Faisal, the political authorities of the country, we managed to change the approach of the political authorities of the Saudis to the new Chechen authorities, the problem of Chechnya and the whole complex of our relations. And the visit happened. Akhmad-Hadji Kadyrov was a participant in the negotiations. The crown prince was watching him all the time, he was a very sensitive, attentive person, he perfectly knew people, he had enormous authority, and I figured that he made certain conclusions even by observing Kadyrov’s appearance. When the issue of establishing direct communication between representatives of the Caucasus region, Chechnya and the Saudi authorities was raised at the negotiations, he took it normally, though he did not give a clear affirmation, but he offered to consider it.- Then Russian diplomacy joined?- We continued work. Already in late 2003 I was at a meeting with the king and Abdullah, we established very good relations with them, an ambassador does not generally get any farther than a minister, very rarely to the crown prince, or king. But he had a reception, I used it and put the issue of Kadyrov’s visit on a practical level. We talked for 2.5 hours. As a result, the king agreed and said “fine, if we receive President Kadyrov, we will organize it at the top level, let him arrive as a guest, he and all his team.” He received them at the governmental mansion in Jeddah, in Riyadh.- What was the decisive argument? What made the king change his decision?- I told him how all the provocation around Chechnya was organized. I opened some cards. Now we even have Berezovsky shown on television, the facts were not that obvious at that time. I had the facts and showed all the provocative background, that the case had absolutely nothing to do with Islam, a wedge had been deliberately driven between the two nations. He understood the arguments. Maybe he was suspecting that things were not that simple. Because the Saudis themselves monitor development of the situation in the region, they have great experience in preventing unfavourable developments, infringement of their territorial integrity, the eastern province. You know, there are processes inside and especially outside the country. So I took the arguments and agreed to organize the visit. Then we met with Kadyrov again and agreed to a scheme where he would head a bigger delegation, where representatives of other Caucasian peoples would be included. He brought religious figures from Chechnya and the Caucasus. The Saudis regarded it as a delegation of representatives of Caucasus regions headed by someone they considered the chief, President Kadyrov that is. When President Kadyrov was at a meeting with the crown prince in Moscow, we were sitting nearby, he said: “Look, please, have I signed the book properly?” He signed in Arabic. I took a look and figured that he just wanted to tell me how well he knew the language and could write. There was nothing to check, it was written excellently, he just wanted to make sure, and I was sure that the origins of his knowledge, including Arabic, since he had a good religious education, were certainly from his father’s relatives. It was certainly all very important. When he arrived next time, his excellent skill played a very big role in terms of trust towards him, as I have mentioned. He was an amazing orator. He made speeches. And when the visit started, it started in Jeddah. At the very start of the visit, there was a meeting with the top intellectuals of Saudi Arabia at the place of the richest man, the billionaire Al-Hoji. His residence was in Jeddah. After the first round of negotiations at the Chamber of Commerce and Industry, we visited Al-Hoji. The atmosphere was very nice, friendly. In our delegation there were many locals, clerics, political and public figures. The conversation was surprisingly sincere. After hearing Kadyrov’s speech, it was clear that people certainly made a full change of their approach because it was certainly a result of reading western media to a great extent. Psychologically, it was a meeting with a large number of Saudis, sincere answers to any questions raised there, we were sitting at the table, walking with Hoji and other invitees. It was an opportunity to talk sincerely.To be cont
