By VK
On the threshold of 20th anniversary of the tragic events in Khojaly has been held the first round table devoted to the topic "Tragic events of postsoviet history". Ismail Agakishiev, Head of Caucasian studies center in RSUH, Alexei Vlasov, Editor in chief of Vestnik Kavkaza, Leonid Gusev, MGIMO-University expert, and Evgeny Krishtalev, News editor of Vestnik Kavkaza participated in the round table.
Ismail Agakishiev, the head of the Caucasian Studies Center under the RSUH:
“As far as the issues you’ve mentioned are concerned, I’ll tell you my proper opinion, as these issues are very important for us all, for our children: the more prosperous and stable and peaceful our states are, the more we communicate and visit each other, the better for everyone, isn’t it? And if there are any forces opposed to such prosperity… well, it would be better if they wouldn’t have existed. But until some states are ruled by the parties of war there will be no peace. There were a lot of inexplicable atrocities, like the Khojali tragedy – why did those people have to die? Because of their ethnicity? If someone gains power through blood, they’ll never ease their grip on this power. They would never investigate such crimes. Not because of the money, no. Because they have an instinct for self-preservation. They understand that when the truth comes out they will be seen as the true culprits of all those terrible crimes. That is why they will hamper such investigations by any means possible. But the world is changing. And even those people will have to answer for their crimes – if not in front of the people, then in front of God. So they’d better stop their aggressive policies.
“Secondly, I agree that economic issues are of key importance. It shouldn’t serve only the elite. One should get rid of monopolies where it is possible. I understand that in some sectors of the economy it would be better if we didn’t get rid of monopolies. I mean the oil industry, energy and others. At the same time, Western countries live with market economies and prosper. Let’s remember the 1930s, when a mixed economy was established in America. It was a period which we criticize heavily, but it was a model, they took some elements from us. Today we have done, do and will do our best. But every politician should do it. Vladimir Putin meets students, meets democrats during the election campaign. If this is maintained in the future, if effective projects are implemented, the country will develop. I think that Russia should have real industry. I mean not only Skolkovo for nano-technologies, but also basic elements of an economy. In this case standards of living will reach the top five in the world. And many problems will be settled in other republics of the CIS. As for could they or not, I can say about 40,000 Armenians are living in Azerbaijan. President Aliyev has many times stated that those Armenians, who live in Nagorno-Karabakh are citizens of Azerbaijan. Despite all the events, there is no ethnic enmity. I think Armenia has a lot of smart people, and they should say the same thing. When they say that the Azerbaijanis who had to leave Armenia as refugees are citizens of Armenia and they can come back, this will be the moment of the start of the problem being settled. Everything depends on people”.
Alexei Vlasov, editor-in-chief of Vestnik Kavkaza, summed the discussion up and emphasized that history demands social diplomacy, and not only policy. “The perfect variant is that Russian, Armenian, Azerbaijani, Uzbek, Tajik historians get together and neutrally professionally discuss historic aspects. Ideology should be sent away from history, I mean its extreme variant, when cheating takes place, white becomes black and vice versa. I think that Vestnik Kavkaza will do its best for launching social diplomacy and social political science in history today. Secondly, we treat the collapse of the USSR as a consequence of foreign influence too, but that is not the main point. I believe that the mistakes of the Soviet and first Russian authorities, Yeltsin and Gorbachev, played a tragic role in the fate of the Soviet Union itself and those states, which were formed after its dissolution. I think it is an example of a weak-willed and forceless policy. Force was used, but it was an instrument of forcelessness. The vanishing of the factor of a Russian person as a central element of the structure led to collapse of the structure. Dissolution of the model after 1986-1987, when key political figures were shuffled in the republics, was the point of no return. Moscow has always relied on strong figures in regions. Now Russia did the same thing. Resignation of strong figures like Shevardnadze, Demirchan, Kunayev, Heydar Aliyev led to the vanishing of footholds, while the people who came after them were obedient but not creative. They couldn’t solve the difficult problems of the country. The system was ruined by their own hands. Of course, the Americans were at work. It was the Cold War”.
Ismail Agakishiev added that “launching the army into Baku in 1990, the Soviet Army, which had freed the world from Nazism, led to the idea of separation. So what was the real reason for launching troops at Tbilisi, Baku and the Baltic countries? We think it over and understand. Weren’t there people who were thinking it over in those days? There were such people. We lived back then and were surprised: “Why don’t they understand it won’t lead to the continuation of the Soviet Union?” So it was done on purpose. Our desires and their desires were different.
“The answer is obvious. Even though the Marxist concept says that the masses make history, but history is impossible without a person. All staff decisions made since 1986 were leading to a weakening of the central power, while in the regions the forces which used the weakness of the new heads of Armenia and Azerbaijan were becoming stronger.
“And how could it be that in place of Kunayev a man, not a Kazakh, who had nothing in common with Kazakhstan, was appointed?
When I heard about it, I had a thought. I’m a man, who was born in Baku, studied in Moscow, and I thought if that happened, then there is no Kazakh people. I understood it, while the one who did it, didn’t understand it. I read about a man who was arrested during a ruling of the People's Front, and his fate. He spoke about the extreme nationalistic ideology: “There were 10-15 people. I informed Moscow many times. The head of the State Security Committee of Azerbaijan sent information to Moscow as well.” It was always so in the 1940s, 1950s, 1960s, but there has always been a special structure, which preserved the state and prevented it. This time nobody reacted. Armenia sent information as well. No reaction. Why? It was beneficial. They gave an opportunity for the ideology to reach people”.
