Interview by Oleg Kusov, exclusively for Vestnik Kavkaza
Interesting people are always welcome in the studio of Vestnik Kavkaza. Oleg Kusov gives every guest in the studio an opportunity to speak their minds. Conversations are not only centered on the Caucasus. A half-hour conversation over tea flies quickly. The show "Take My Word" films and records its conversations as well as offering them in text form.
- Ramiz, you talked very interestingly about the first emigration wave, and I feel like you feel more connected to it. Which most striking figures would you highlight? Who are you most interested in?
- I liked the people I didn't know, but read about, the military. I was always amazed by the difficult conditions of people who wanted to struggle and return to Russia. They worked at the Renault and Citroen factories, and trained on Saturdays and Sundays so as not to lose their military skills. These were people with ideas, patriots of Tsarist Russia. I've always been amazed by the fact that they had preserved their love... "We'll be back, we will fight for it!"
- Did they live with the idea to go back?
- Yes. I personally knew Bunin, our writer. He introduced me to several representatives of the first wave of emigration. Nikolai Pavlovich Rosteletsky. I knew the poet Alexander Kusikov, the friend of Yesenin. Mayakovsky wrote about him: "Let's not argue about tastes and small tastes; some like Mayakovsky others like Kusikov." We lived in the same apartment block. It was a coincidence.
- Not an accidental one. It was a gift of fate to you, because you were working on this.
- For us Soviet people, emigre bookstores were very interesting. There were books that were not published anymore.
- In Russian?
- In Russian. Solzhenitsyn - is one of the later ones. At first there were Merezhkovsky, Aldanov, Gaito Gazdanov, Nabokov. A segment which we knew nothing about. But the forbidden fruit is sweetest. We were not allowed to go there, but we went quietly, of course. We bought Russkaya Mysl. If you compare today's Russkaya Mysl with the one which was back then, it is heaven and earth.
- And by doing it you put yourself at risk as a Soviet diplomat.
- I did, of course.
- What about people from the Caucasus abroad... I am curious about their style. How did they relate to each other? Did they have a feeling similar to, say, "I'm not from Georgia, I'm from Abkhazia."
- No. In 1919 in Paris there were diplomatic delegations of four Caucausian republics. From Azerbaijan there was Topchibashev, from Armenia - Aramyan, from Georgia - Chkhenkeli and from the Gorsky Republic - Chermoev. Starting from the early days they tried to always be together, because even during the Civil War they did not come in contact with the Whites, because they demanded the independence of the four republics. Even Denikin fought in the Caucasus... But in Paris people from the Caucasus told him: "We do not interfere. The Civil War is Russia's internal affair." In exile there were monarchists who told Caucasians: "We do not accept your views, because you are separatists." But the Caucasians themselves tried to stay close. The first declaration of four diplomatic representatives of the Caucasus on the establishment of a Caucasian state was signed in June 1921. The second in 1924. But then an alienation began, because the Armenian delegation had begun to think: "We mostly consider ourselves part of the Middle East, we have little land in the Caucasus." But three delegations - Azerbaijani, Georgian and the delegation of the Gorsky Republic - worked very closely together, and in 1934 signed a declaration on the establishment of a committee of the independent Caucasus. It was July 14, 1934. They appeared for the last time in Munich in 1952 and talked about a united Caucasus. They had a magazine, Prometheus, about the Caucasus. They also published the North Caucasus, the Independent Caucasus, a lot of magazines. But the most influential was Prometheus, which united Caucasians, the Turkestan people and Ukrainians, oddly enough the oppressed peoples of Russia, as they said.
- Caucasians have achieved there what they could not achieve at home - unity.
- By the way, Topchibashev was one of the champions of this process.
- Now I understand that actually the best people went there.
- Yes, they were the best intellectuals of the Caucasus, including the Dagestani people, Ossetians, Georgians, Armenians and Azerbaijanis.
- Books, theses, monographs are dedicated to this subject, and it would be good to dedicate a whole program to it. We invite you and talk more about how Caucasians lived in the first and second wave of emigration. And now, as you rightly say, there are mostly businessmen who immigrated. I also met some of them while living in Europe. Many have deliberately taken the citizenship of the countries where they live, renouncing Russian citizenship, but it's their decision.
At the end of the program, we usually have a special Q&A time, but not as serious as the one by Marcel Proust and Vladimir Pozner on Channel One. Questions are more about everyday life and you can answer not only in one sentence. Do you regret that you do not live in Europe anymore? It is a very important issue for you, because you have lived there for 16 years.
- I am not clear on it. Of course, I love Paris, I would like to live in this city. But on the other hand, I have a great-grandson growing up in Moscow. For me there is no one closer than my great-grandson. They say that if a person meets his great-grandson, he is a happy man. So for me Moscow is the first. On the other hand, we live in such a time that only money is needed. If I have to go tomorrow, I can go anywhere in the world. Once a year I go to Paris.
- Are you a believer?
- I'm a believer, but I am not practising. As a child I grew up with my grandparents and still know some prayers that my grandmother taught me. But I do not practice, do not perform namaz and do not go to mosque.
- That is, God is in your heart?
- Yes, you may say so.
- Do you know why your parents named you Ramiz?
- In Arabic it means "pointing the way." They hope that I'd be pointing them the way. Ramiz means a sign. That's what I was told.
- What book are you reading right now?
- I've just started reading the diaries of Akhmatova - a very interesting book, associated with the period about which we have talked so much today. I began to enjoy reading biographical books lately, apparently this interest manifested itself with age. Before that, I was reading the novel "The Kite Runner" by Khaled Hosseini, about Afghanistan. Very interesting. I cannot say that I read a lot, but I read.
- This is your habit.
- Yes, to read a newspaper, read a book. I also read things on the internet. It is a habit.
- Is it important not to be too much on the internet at the expense of other types of reading?
- Well, you know, I learned about Khaled Hosseini from the internet, it is a popular novel. I did not know anything about it, to be honest. After I learned about it from the internet, I went to Novy Arbat and bought it at a bookstore.
- What is your favorite aphorism or line from a poem? You already quoted Mayakovsky for us today. Perhaps something from Azerbaijani poetry?
- I have a favorite phrase: "I've done everything I could, let others do better."
- Which football team do you support?
- When I was young, I was a fan of Neftchi Baku and Dynamo Moscow. Now, frankly, I do not watch football.
- Any series you are watching?
- Yes, I watch some series. It depends which actors are playing. For example, I enjoy watching series with Mashkov. Some don't like these series, but I like Liquidation about Odessa very much...
- You choose movies based on actors? An interesting principle. Based on this principle I've discovered some very interesting films .
- There was a TV series about Savva Morozov, about his life, it was very interesting.
- What is your favorite TV show?
- I like watching Channel Kultura most of all. It's my favorite TV channel. Yesterday I saw a program about the French writer Romain Gary. I also enjoy watching historical documentaries on Kultura.
- Thank God that this channel exists. I ask many people about Russian TV, and people say that Channel Kultura is their favorite channel, which offers diversity. Are there cities that fascinate you? The answer will be obvious, I guess.
- Of course .
- Could you advise young people on what is the best age to get married?
- You should get married when you are between 20 and 30, and regarding women, I do not know, probably between 18 to 23.
- You can even earlier.
- Well, earlier is difficult.
- And the law prohibits it. What is the formula for success for young people?
- Work hard and get what you want by yourself.
- What question haven't I asked you today? What would be the question I haven't asked you today that you would like to talk about?
- Well, for example, about my wife's attitude towards my business.
- Can you tell us about it?
- I want to say that my wife is ideal. Imagine, on Saturday, during the weekend going to the archives, sitting with the elderly and leaving her alone with the children. She has endured a lot and is still enduring. I am very grateful to her, because I was able to do many things thanks to her patience and her love for me and my love for her.
- Thank you very much! Our guest today was Ramiz Abutalibov, a public figure, an Azerbaijani diplomat, and as you've seen, a wonderful head of a loving family.
- Thank you!
